From lojban-out@lojban.org Sat Jan 06 11:36:56 2007 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 55356 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2007 19:29:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jan 2007 19:29:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail2.sea5.speakeasy.net) (69.17.117.4) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jan 2007 19:29:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 5639 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2007 19:27:17 -0000 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.66.169]) (envelope-sender ) by mail2.sea5.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP for ; 6 Jan 2007 19:27:16 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1H3HCD-0002bf-56 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 06 Jan 2007 11:27:13 -0800 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.66.169]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1H3HBp-0002Zq-DU; Sat, 06 Jan 2007 11:26:54 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Sat, 06 Jan 2007 11:24:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1H3H9d-0002Za-8q for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Sat, 06 Jan 2007 11:24:33 -0800 Received: from web81308.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.199.124]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1H3H9Y-0002ZQ-NT for lojban-list@lojban.org; Sat, 06 Jan 2007 11:24:32 -0800 Received: (qmail 73554 invoked by uid 60001); 6 Jan 2007 19:24:22 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: npqIbjoVM1mA6ABVJqM2XGo8fCC3SB._TmE8dg_ObITfLCyBgcmviP2x0k_uipUL3g-- Received: from [70.237.196.59] by web81308.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 06 Jan 2007 11:24:22 PST Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 11:24:22 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <925d17560701060757o1c0b3914w2f28416a2858cb29@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <611088.72555.qm@web81308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Spam-Score: -0.7 X-Spam-Score-Int: -6 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 13520 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: clifford-j@sbcglobal.net X-list: lojban-list X-Spam-Score: -0.7 X-Spam-Score-Int: -6 X-Spam-Bar: / X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "chain.digitalkingdom.org", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: To sum up: There does not yet seem to be a Lojban expression which refers to what English "promise" refers to in "make/keep/break a promise?" In particular, {lo se nupre} does not work (nor for any other English use of "promise," for that matter). On the other hand, all of the expressions that use "promise" can be rendered without loss into Lojban, in expressions which usually do use {lo se nupre}. The same remarks apply to "obligation" and {lo se bilga} and presumably to most expressions in this deontic area ("duty" was mentioned earlier as well). I don't really think that there is a lot of point -- now, any how -- finding a Lojban expression for these nominal uses of "promise" since we can always say what is intended using a different idiom strategy and the kinds of controversy such a search would involve are irrelevant to the Lojban project (so far as I can see). [...] Content analysis details: (-0.7 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 UNPARSEABLE_RELAY Informational: message has unparseable relay lines -2.6 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] 0.2 DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE RBL: Envelope sender in abuse.rfc-ignorant.org 1.7 DNS_FROM_RFC_POST RBL: Envelope sender in postmaster.rfc-ignorant.org -0.0 AWL AWL: From: address is in the auto white-list To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 69.17.117.4 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: John E Clifford From: John E Clifford Reply-To: clifford-j@sbcglobal.net Subject: [lojban] Re: Duty, promice etc... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790; y=BVYZM6RI3een6lWKGPtV7IYdBsIcgzjwbg8Kg_fYi89AkJIAVA X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 27959 To sum up: There does not yet seem to be a Lojban expression which refers to what English "promise" refers to in "make/keep/break a promise?" In particular, {lo se nupre} does not work (nor for any other English use of "promise," for that matter). On the other hand, all of the expressions that use "promise" can be rendered without loss into Lojban, in expressions which usually do use {lo se nupre}. The same remarks apply to "obligation" and {lo se bilga} and presumably to most expressions in this deontic area ("duty" was mentioned earlier as well). I don't really think that there is a lot of point -- now, any how -- finding a Lojban expression for these nominal uses of "promise" since we can always say what is intended using a different idiom strategy and the kinds of controversy such a search would involve are irrelevant to the Lojban project (so far as I can see). To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.