From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Wed Oct 17 20:43:21 2007 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Wed, 17 Oct 2007 20:43:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1IiMI4-0006e8-MY for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Wed, 17 Oct 2007 20:43:21 -0700 Received: from wx-out-0506.google.com ([66.249.82.229]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1IiMI0-0006dw-EZ for lojban-list@lojban.org; Wed, 17 Oct 2007 20:43:20 -0700 Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i27so32495wxd for ; Wed, 17 Oct 2007 20:43:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:x-google-sender-auth; bh=y5KoGUdwIVjcPRXKdcsH0LaQmJrJuIMfhmhAmsrzJ4k=; b=htlpO4qULujvxZPJXzXz2zXWk5cZ/U5XZPv146PB/eJ7+aKvfmSy717WEWhi+qPa3wWRMOuBluGSMO8GyRPVbpq9rqcxJd2xjRYsSHFdtDIJzleNCIMcY8VYgKqevH7pbanj+cP0vQZsFRm0sykhjuPACc6nGgwyBuNEgyrP7+o= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:x-google-sender-auth; b=Ho7djydg4rUQeeIzia4xogtORPomjaW3mAklraa00HBonUMyhrnp2a6110B4+iJYeqzBK7KhC6tmsc4PvLH+myiHzGSrfS6wRAoj6FYKUIAwCtyRclgUghLag0Q/rABkC8QrnRyvRj97/SJB8/+uStf5/HprLXwzh2J2D7c0X2k= Received: by 10.70.65.8 with SMTP id n8mr174209wxa.1192678990330; Wed, 17 Oct 2007 20:43:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.67.18 with HTTP; Wed, 17 Oct 2007 20:43:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3ccac5f10710172043k661ab865necb25fd51649fa90@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 07:43:10 +0400 From: "Cyril Slobin" To: "Lojban List" Subject: [lojban] Human lojban skills -- or transhuman ones? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Google-Sender-Auth: 60909db9d1586dd3 X-Spam-Score: -0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 13879 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: slobin@ice.ru Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list The topic about lojban skills scoring is raised here and there. I believe that lojban is different from any other language in at least one important feature: while using any external tools (vocabularies, translation soft and so on) is considered cheating in language exams, such tools are very natural for lojban. I myself never use lojban outside my comfortable workplace with good Internet access. Therefore I do not put too much effort into vocab memorising -- online vocab is always close at hand. And if and when I'll rich enough to spend my vacation in lojbanistan, I'll own some sort of a wearable computer. After all, lojban is closely related to transhumanism, isn't it? So my idea is: when we will invent lojban fluency exams, divide them into two categories: (1) traditional -- brain only, no external tools, and (2) transhuman -- with a full access to any tools a person wishes to use. This resembles and idea by Vernor Vinge: in his "bubble" novel chess world cup was separate for humans and human-computer teams. -- Cyril Slobin `When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, http://wagner.pp.ru/~slobin/ `it means just what I choose it to mean' To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.