From lojban-out@lojban.org Wed Oct 17 20:45:21 2007 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 69354 invoked from network); 18 Oct 2007 03:45:20 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Oct 2007 03:45:20 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail5.sea5.speakeasy.net) (69.17.117.7) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Oct 2007 03:45:20 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 10243 invoked from network); 18 Oct 2007 03:45:20 -0000 X-Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.66.169]) (envelope-sender ) by mail5.sea5.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP for ; 18 Oct 2007 03:45:19 -0000 X-Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1IiMJy-0006jF-EK for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 17 Oct 2007 20:45:18 -0700 X-Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.66.169]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1IiMJI-0006eE-RU; Wed, 17 Oct 2007 20:44:40 -0700 X-Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Wed, 17 Oct 2007 20:43:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1IiMI4-0006e8-MY for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Wed, 17 Oct 2007 20:43:21 -0700 X-Received: from wx-out-0506.google.com ([66.249.82.229]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1IiMI0-0006dw-EZ for lojban-list@lojban.org; Wed, 17 Oct 2007 20:43:20 -0700 X-Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i27so32495wxd for ; Wed, 17 Oct 2007 20:43:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.70.65.8 with SMTP id n8mr174209wxa.1192678990330; Wed, 17 Oct 2007 20:43:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.70.67.18 with HTTP; Wed, 17 Oct 2007 20:43:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3ccac5f10710172043k661ab865necb25fd51649fa90@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 07:43:10 +0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Google-Sender-Auth: 60909db9d1586dd3 X-Spam-Score: -0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 13879 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: slobin@ice.ru X-list: lojban-list X-Spam-Score: -0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 69.17.117.7 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: "Cyril Slobin" From: "Cyril Slobin" Reply-To: slobin@ice.ru Subject: [lojban] Human lojban skills -- or transhuman ones? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790; y=ietVyiicMypIzwS6VFlJREIANCVoAxQRreFEP_4uk3VssIClCg X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 28356 The topic about lojban skills scoring is raised here and there. I believe that lojban is different from any other language in at least one important feature: while using any external tools (vocabularies, translation soft and so on) is considered cheating in language exams, such tools are very natural for lojban. I myself never use lojban outside my comfortable workplace with good Internet access. Therefore I do not put too much effort into vocab memorising -- online vocab is always close at hand. And if and when I'll rich enough to spend my vacation in lojbanistan, I'll own some sort of a wearable computer. After all, lojban is closely related to transhumanism, isn't it? So my idea is: when we will invent lojban fluency exams, divide them into two categories: (1) traditional -- brain only, no external tools, and (2) transhuman -- with a full access to any tools a person wishes to use. This resembles and idea by Vernor Vinge: in his "bubble" novel chess world cup was separate for humans and human-computer teams. -- Cyril Slobin `When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, http://wagner.pp.ru/~slobin/ `it means just what I choose it to mean' To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.