From lojban-out@lojban.org Sat Oct 27 16:02:16 2007 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 25535 invoked from network); 27 Oct 2007 23:02:15 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Oct 2007 23:02:15 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail6.sea5.speakeasy.net) (69.17.117.8) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Oct 2007 23:02:15 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 1868 invoked from network); 27 Oct 2007 23:02:09 -0000 X-Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.66.169]) (envelope-sender ) by mail6.sea5.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP for ; 27 Oct 2007 23:02:08 -0000 X-Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1IlufO-0005XI-TV for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 27 Oct 2007 16:02:08 -0700 X-Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.66.169]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1Iluf1-00055B-JX; Sat, 27 Oct 2007 16:01:45 -0700 X-Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Sat, 27 Oct 2007 15:59:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1IludE-000551-3n for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Sat, 27 Oct 2007 15:59:53 -0700 X-Received: from fk-out-0910.google.com ([209.85.128.185]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1IludB-00054b-EA for lojban-list@chain.digitalkingdom.org; Sat, 27 Oct 2007 15:59:51 -0700 X-Received: by fk-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id 18so1228451fkq for ; Sat, 27 Oct 2007 15:59:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.82.177.3 with SMTP id z3mr8899513bue.1193525987067; Sat, 27 Oct 2007 15:59:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.82.113.2 with HTTP; Sat, 27 Oct 2007 15:59:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <2204fa080710271559j2a8be04cx484aa2844679086b@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 17:59:47 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_11888_29394137.1193525987063" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 13884 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: angell.jared@gmail.com X-list: lojban-list X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 69.17.117.8 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: "Jared Angell" From: "Jared Angell" Reply-To: angell.jared@gmail.com Subject: [lojban] lojbanistan X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790; y=Ep9VR9SJ7VAqX3rsGGy4rxM7mUQlkj68ccq0_IaBdfH-3awBnQ X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 28362 ------=_Part_11888_29394137.1193525987063 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Everyone, I have been presenting arguments over the last week or so first to get an audience and then to present what I feel are real problems with Lojban's growth. While the language is apparently growing I still feel that the level of serious speakers is well under a necessary critical mass. I do not feel that this problem is either trivial nor insurmountable. What I propose is that certain members of the community should undertake the task of taking steps towards actually forming a community of Lojban speakers where children will be brought up speaking Lojban at some point in the unspecified future. What I speak of it planning and marketing thinkers. They need not even be speakers of the language (I'm pretty sure that Theodore Herzl didn't speak Modern Hebrew as a case in point.) All I am proposing is merely that the topic of forming Lojbanistan needs to be opened and that it needs to be a goal. I am not implying that it need necessarily be an effort or a goal on a time frame anytime soon. Merely that it is something that should be discussed and taken seriously if anyone is serious about getting this language spoken. There are historical precedents that I am aware of that lead me to believe that this is not an unreasonable future goal (among them the state of Israel is the most similar but I can think of several more off the top of my head). That does not mean that this goal would be easy but it need not be worked on for 20 years. Merely leaving Lojban to the Internet would be to perhaps allow it survive as a sort of 'geek code' but I highly doubt that without children growing up with Lojban as one of their mother tongs that it will ever be more than that. We have discussed other possibilities of getting people to speak Lojban and they have all been quickly shot down...this is the best alternative in my view. I do not understand why who I am has anything to do with the value of my arguments. I am a person who strongly believes that language shapes thought. I think that is all that is relevant about me at present. Djared (Farlus) ------=_Part_11888_29394137.1193525987063 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Everyone,

I have been presenting arguments over the last week or so first to get an audience and then to present what I feel are real problems with Lojban's growth.  While the language is apparently growing I still feel that the level of serious speakers is well under a necessary critical mass.

I do not feel that this problem is either trivial nor insurmountable.

What I propose is that certain members of the community should undertake the task of taking steps towards actually forming a community of Lojban speakers where children will be brought up speaking Lojban at some point in the unspecified future.  What I speak of it planning and marketing thinkers.  They need not even be speakers of the language (I'm pretty sure that Theodore Herzl didn't speak Modern Hebrew as a case in point.)

All I am proposing is merely that the topic of forming Lojbanistan needs to be opened and that it needs to be a goal.  I am not implying that it need necessarily be an effort or a goal on a time frame anytime soon.  Merely that it is something that should be discussed and taken seriously if anyone is serious about getting this language spoken.

There are historical precedents that I am aware of that lead me to believe that this is not an unreasonable future goal (among them the state of Israel is the most similar but I can think of several more off the top of my head).  That does not mean that this goal would be easy but it need not be worked on for 20 years.

Merely leaving Lojban to the Internet would be to perhaps allow it survive as a sort of 'geek code' but I highly doubt that without children growing up with Lojban as one of their mother tongs that it will ever be more than that.  We have discussed other possibilities of getting people to speak Lojban and they have all been quickly shot down...this is the best alternative in my view.

I do not understand why who I am has anything to do with the value of my arguments.  I am a person who strongly believes that language shapes thought.  I think that is all that is relevant about me at present.

Djared (Farlus) ------=_Part_11888_29394137.1193525987063--