From lojban-out@lojban.org Sat Nov 10 17:22:35 2007 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 3697 invoked from network); 11 Nov 2007 01:22:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Nov 2007 01:22:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail2.sea5.speakeasy.net) (69.17.117.4) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Nov 2007 01:22:34 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 28082 invoked from network); 11 Nov 2007 01:22:34 -0000 X-Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.66.169]) (envelope-sender ) by mail2.sea5.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP for ; 11 Nov 2007 01:22:34 -0000 X-Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1Ir1Wy-0001R1-Rb for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 10 Nov 2007 17:22:33 -0800 X-Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.66.169]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1Ir1WX-0001Nv-TL; Sat, 10 Nov 2007 17:22:07 -0800 X-Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Sat, 10 Nov 2007 17:20:53 -0800 (PST) X-Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1Ir1VM-0001Np-Ki for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Sat, 10 Nov 2007 17:20:52 -0800 X-Received: from phma.optus.nu ([166.82.175.165] helo=ixazon.dynip.com) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1Ir1VJ-0001Ni-QX for lojban-list@lojban.org; Sat, 10 Nov 2007 17:20:52 -0800 X-Received: from chausie (unknown [192.168.7.4]) by ixazon.dynip.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4ED1CE85C for ; Sat, 10 Nov 2007 20:20:46 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2007 21:20:42 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.5 References: <200711092247.41574.phma@phma.optus.nu> <02a501c823ef$cf44af00$0202a8c0@TOP> <12d58c160711101536r7d5794fdq544c3c5c589c85cd@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <12d58c160711101536r7d5794fdq544c3c5c589c85cd@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200711102020.42849.phma@phma.optus.nu> X-Spam-Score: 0.1 X-Spam-Score-Int: 1 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 13915 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: phma@phma.optus.nu X-list: lojban-list X-Spam-Score: 0.1 X-Spam-Score-Int: 1 X-Spam-Bar: / To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 69.17.117.4 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: Pierre Abbat From: Pierre Abbat Reply-To: phma@phma.optus.nu Subject: [lojban] Re: Deutschland X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790; y=uWItCaDUJ9pzMMUtILuoi1WI2eewIsWsd6-3A7AsMXNPxsCsHA X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 28392 On Saturday 10 November 2007 18:36, komfo,amonan wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Pierre Abbat" > > To: > > Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 9:47 PM > > Subject: [lojban] Deutschland > > > > > The cmene can't be {doitclant} because of the doi/la/lai/la'i rule. The > > > Book, > > > IIRR, says it's {daitclant}. But the gismu is {dotco}, so why isn't the > > > cmene > > > {dotclant}? > > Consider that both forms derive from the original 'deutsch/Deutschland', & > each follows its own morphological rules. Hence 'dotco' is the closest > possible word to 'deutsch' in (cultural-) gismu-space, while 'daitclant' is > the closest possible word to 'Deutschland' in cmevla-space. I don't think {daitclant} is closer to "Deutschland" than {dotclant} is, and prefer {dotclant} for consistency. > On Nov 10, 2007 6:17 PM, Nathaniel Krause wrote: > > I'm not sure why one would use a cmevla at all, since there happens to be > > a > > lujvo, dotygu'e, available with the same meaning. You may want to avoid having the listener think of the x2 and x3 of the lujvo, or you may want to use a cmevla for consistency (la .estraix .e la dotclant), or maybe someone might think that {dotygu'e} could refer to other countries where German is spoken. > Some folks, myself included, are uncomfortable with the cultural gismu -- > they seem to elevate a couple dozen cultures above all the others. (And > yes I know I use them, but within a year or so I'll probably dispense with > their use entirely.) There are also cultural lujvo and cultural fu'ivla: labru'o, dizdo'o, berdo'o, brodo'o, mraigo, katlana, skalduna, bre'one, tce'exo, oksitano, oiltano, tsakoni, to name several just in Europe. Pierre To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.