From lojban-out@lojban.org Tue Dec 18 11:56:59 2007 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 84424 invoked from network); 18 Dec 2007 19:56:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Dec 2007 19:56:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail2.sea5.speakeasy.net) (69.17.117.4) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Dec 2007 19:56:58 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 7097 invoked from network); 18 Dec 2007 19:56:57 -0000 X-Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.66.169]) (envelope-sender ) by mail2.sea5.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP for ; 18 Dec 2007 19:56:57 -0000 X-Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1J4iYh-0001ZQ-5z for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 11:56:55 -0800 X-Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.66.169]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1J4iYB-0001UC-Ec; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 11:56:27 -0800 X-Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Tue, 18 Dec 2007 11:55:29 -0800 (PST) X-Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1J4iXJ-0001U6-4N for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 11:55:29 -0800 X-Received: from pi.meson.org ([66.134.26.207]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1J4iXE-0001TN-K9 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 11:55:28 -0800 X-Received: (qmail 6389 invoked from network); 18 Dec 2007 14:55:19 -0500 X-Received: from nagas.meson.org (HELO ?192.168.1.101?) (1000@192.168.1.101) by pi.meson.org with SMTP; 18 Dec 2007 14:55:19 -0500 Message-ID: <476825A7.1080602@kli.org> Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 14:55:19 -0500 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (X11/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <737b61f30712181039r134bca55v908d10e8be1323be@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560712181117k3d8ee116yab87e6e27d6d6361@mail.gmail.com> <3ccac5f10712181136w76664b5drdd962b2c9f12df97@mail.gmail.com> <47682208.20803@perpetuum-immobile.de> In-Reply-To: <47682208.20803@perpetuum-immobile.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -0.1 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 14036 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: mark@kli.org X-list: lojban-list X-Spam-Score: -0.1 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 69.17.117.4 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: "Mark E. Shoulson" From: "Mark E. Shoulson" Reply-To: mark@kli.org Subject: [lojban] Re: SVO order X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790; y=PMOaT9qxLeslLDee3TfOWi-4P09ceJ4wcL71uiyavbT866G9Zw X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 28516 Timo Paulssen wrote: > Cyril Slobin wrote: > >> I have just now discovered that English language has such a confusion. >> Correct me if I am wrong, but... In English we can speak, say, about >> the SVO order. "S" is for "Subject" here, and nobody mistakes "Subject" >> with "Noun", although noun can (and often do) work as subject. >> > > I have only been told of the SPO order: Subject, Predicate and Object. > - Timo > Yes, the word that is to "verb" what "subject" is to "noun" is "predicate," and sometimes that is used as the term by which these things are taught. But I half-recall a teacher mentioning in passing that she preferred calling it a "verb" there, because "predicate" is too broad term, I think. For example, in the sentence "Fred is a doctor," the subject is "Fred" and the predicate is "is a doctor" ("a doctor" being a predicate nominative, and part of the predicate) whereas the verb is "is." So it isn't necessarily a confusion of categories to speak of subject-verb-object and not subject-predicate-object or noun-verb-noun. ~mark To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.