From lojban-out@lojban.org Sat Feb 02 06:00:54 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 12153 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2008 14:00:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Feb 2008 14:00:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail3.sea5.speakeasy.net) (69.17.117.5) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Feb 2008 14:00:53 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 19072 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2008 14:00:53 -0000 X-Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.66.169]) (envelope-sender ) by mail3.sea5.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP for ; 2 Feb 2008 14:00:53 -0000 X-Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1JLIvL-0007sa-U0 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 02 Feb 2008 06:00:52 -0800 X-Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.66.169]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1JLIuu-0007lb-Tw; Sat, 02 Feb 2008 06:00:28 -0800 X-Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Sat, 02 Feb 2008 05:59:18 -0800 (PST) X-Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1JLItp-0007lV-Sr for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Sat, 02 Feb 2008 05:59:18 -0800 X-Received: from phma.optus.nu ([166.82.175.165] helo=ixazon.dynip.com) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1JLItm-0007lM-11 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Sat, 02 Feb 2008 05:59:17 -0800 X-Received: from chausie (unknown [192.168.7.4]) by ixazon.dynip.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 860CDCE85D for ; Sat, 2 Feb 2008 08:59:07 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2008 08:59:00 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.5 References: <737b61f30802011852p3a6b3115n2562711f83535a7e@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <737b61f30802011852p3a6b3115n2562711f83535a7e@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200802020859.02186.phma@phma.optus.nu> X-Spam-Score: 0.1 X-Spam-Score-Int: 1 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 14152 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: phma@phma.optus.nu X-list: lojban-list X-Spam-Score: 0.1 X-Spam-Score-Int: 1 X-Spam-Bar: / To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 69.17.117.5 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: Pierre Abbat From: Pierre Abbat Reply-To: phma@phma.optus.nu Subject: [lojban] Re: dates, controversy, and newbies X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790; y=2EOdLxrf0jFSbve9em8qhuM3QQYJ0O_aaJ9PuOQNBdtyHdc4yw X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 28636 On Friday 01 February 2008 21:52, Chris Capel wrote: > So I've been reading some old arguments on this list (from 2001-9) > over detri, pi'e, etc. And I find myself in a position of writing > material that, practically speaking, has to take a position on these > issues, or else skip that part of the language. Material to teach the > language to beginners. > > I could go with the option of just following LFB, but I really > hesitate to do so. Using cmene for years, months, and weekdays seems > so ... inelegant. And has usage settled down on this yet? For the LE > issue, I had the easy option of following the BPFK proposals, but > AFAIK date format issues haven't been (and won't be) addressed by the > BPFK. > > I could just pick a side, but given the possible influence I might > have, that feels like a big overreach. (I feel your pain, Nick.) If > usage hasn't settled anything yet (and I wouldn't think it has) then > what should I do? Teach the controversy? Even that option has the > downside of confusing and discouraging newbies, but perhaps it's not > avoidable at this stage in Lojban's development. I suggest teaching two systems for months and weekdays, and {tu'omoi nanca} for years ({nanca} can be omitted if it's obvious). For months, {pavma'i} and {ianvari} (see [[latmo veldetri]] for complete list), and relegate {kanbyma'i} to astrology; for weekdays, {soldei} and {pavdei}. I agree that cmene for dates are inelegant. Lojban isn't the only language with multiple date naming systems. Some countries use more than one calendar, and Portuguese at some time used two systems of naming weekdays. Pierre To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.