From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Tue Mar 25 13:34:58 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Tue, 25 Mar 2008 13:34:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1JeFrG-0001hj-KV for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 13:34:58 -0700 Received: from rv-out-0910.google.com ([209.85.198.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1JeFr9-0001hJ-S1 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 13:34:58 -0700 Received: by rv-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id b22so1724876rvf.46 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 13:34:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=77V0ak78vdcov6peRWGRdop8erlO72wGu5zyiwuLe4I=; b=G/Q10zjXDzXrbhfwy1+rtj4iFeUCmsiLz+gxKp5/7m+7BDcNan7e4vJ5nbTujbddljP+1qdzrPLbc0ag/Mc8ZrGLSn2xFWFtFgHptrTFAPd362s+c4UEUkfrPuSgksDcXK8rsbEBEEqENoKsQd6+3ljHnSNXg9Gy+4fCFE+KKVI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=uJvq7Dcb68VlHVJlwhe9s/kP6Pd5moVmAsvjHU+TBixavHhU50yUVuGWlEWFP1WRRWbKVbw+Ehf5zNzx9PjUo25dX0V9Y7rFwvWe/hbYKhSVY3haQQTi/UZJu5dMDj9Itajyj3QCv5tz0nmYFr0hFzCAciGgzOMwKLGvyz6ctkc= Received: by 10.140.174.18 with SMTP id w18mr3745946rve.227.1206477289382; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 13:34:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.141.87.17 with HTTP; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 13:34:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <96f789a60803251334x1da2b5bbw32fa31911f87557b@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 16:34:49 -0400 From: "Michael Turniansky" To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: goods In-Reply-To: <925d17560803240953q54ec0588s2d2877fdade19e48@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis Content-Disposition: inline References: <200803231536.01201.phma@phma.optus.nu> <200803231809.21296.phma@phma.optus.nu> <47E6EE17.4030802@kli.org> <200803232058.30751.phma@phma.optus.nu> <925d17560803240953q54ec0588s2d2877fdade19e48@mail.gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: -0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 14256 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: mturniansky@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list On Mon, Mar 24, 2008 at 12:53 PM, Jorge Llambías wrote: > On Sun, Mar 23, 2008 at 9:58 PM, Pierre Abbat wrote: > > > > I think {selva'i} is better. Some goods, such as source code to programs, are > > not consumed but still have value. > > I think the main idea behind "good" is not so much something > that is valuable as something you can dispose of. The sun is > something valuable but I don't know if it would be called a > "good". But probably different contexts call for different choices > and there is no single best translation. > > Here is what MWC says: 3 a): something that has economic utility or satisfies an economic want b) plural : personal property having intrinsic value but usually excluding money, securities, and negotiable instruments d) plural : something manufactured or produced for sale : wares, merchandise So, it is something that has value (selva'i) OR something that is for sale (selve'u), depending on which quality you want to emphasize in your particular usage. But while we're on the subject, how would you say business/commerce? "loi nu terkagni"? Doesn't seem quite right. For that matter, how would you specify "open for business"? (clearly not a kalri type of "open"). And for another type of "open", how about "open (one's) eyes"? Here, MAYBE you could make a case for "kargau lo kalgai [lo kalne'i loi gusni]", but I'm not sure (Hebrew uses two different words for opening a door/container, and opening the eyes). Opinions? --gejyspa To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.