From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Mon Apr 28 07:04:10 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Mon, 28 Apr 2008 07:04:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1JqTxi-0002QZ-FR for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Mon, 28 Apr 2008 07:04:10 -0700 Received: from fg-out-1718.google.com ([72.14.220.154]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1JqTxd-0002QJ-FM for lojban-list@lojban.org; Mon, 28 Apr 2008 07:04:10 -0700 Received: by fg-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id e12so4606611fga.0 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2008 07:04:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=XqpX0kTjBvxOvCHAyNyQkYGQTcuB7iH2+I/yDPicX6I=; b=J4IeVRiURkpffEduyGiZIW1mBhTyevPro3SgUUxRJ0V1aT3bRg763+MsTNMXuY1xIKMjZiHbIDHeYPG80zN7Bio+SajbBWV9LXaz/FsUOWRuPZO7BqmG/7G4Brk1A3xHHV36MwABHPq10Ah8fGTZ9EthGTymrdTsIqcf6E5uWo8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=YvAtSAWfB82WhVWZDs1qAct6j3K1LxlxpRbnqdY764Ds1jKW5GPJ6w8wFrV0y8HOpQaH/+MQvCVFdbWolQMA6B+Nw9uGOAttoFpQjYNt6ByO1ZrBw6K3Y+1GuEWbqN+xo7X2twddZjCUgo3L09zDaQu90el3T8K3Cx45oLD2VVg= Received: by 10.86.3.4 with SMTP id 4mr7782362fgc.78.1209391444296; Mon, 28 Apr 2008 07:04:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.86.33.18 with HTTP; Mon, 28 Apr 2008 07:04:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <925d17560804280704x12e6040fqf2535e0c4a56ad47@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 11:04:04 -0300 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?=" To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: Nth letter of the alphabet In-Reply-To: <200804261636.47827.phma@phma.optus.nu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <200804261636.47827.phma@phma.optus.nu> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 14406 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list On 4/26/08, Pierre Abbat wrote: > When numbering the letters of the Lojban alphabet, what number is assigned > to "a"? Do we start "y'y, abu, by", or "y'y, slaka bu, denpa bu, abu"? I would not count slaka bu as a letter of the Lojban alphabet, on the grounds that it does not represent any Lojban phoneme. It's more like a symbol like "?", "!", or even the use of capital letters, which may have its meaning but is not strictly a part of the alphabet. As for dictionary order, I would prefer to ignore denpa bu (so that {.e} cames after {fa}, not before as in ASCII, and almost ignore y'y, using it only to put the vowel pair after the diphthong it breaks, so I prefer the order "at au a'u av" rather than the ASCII "a'u at au av". As for the actual numbering question, given that the Lojban alphabet is an extension of a reduced Latin alphabet, I would put them at the end of the alphabet, so abu is the first letter, as usual, and y'y and denpa bu the last two (in whatever order). mu'o mi'e xorxes To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.