From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Thu Oct 02 10:34:34 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Thu, 02 Oct 2008 10:34:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1KlS4Q-0001Qy-UY for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2008 10:34:34 -0700 Received: from mail-gx0-f19.google.com ([209.85.217.19]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1KlS4M-0001QE-OI for lojban-list@lojban.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2008 10:34:34 -0700 Received: by gxk12 with SMTP id 12so1817712gxk.10 for ; Thu, 02 Oct 2008 10:34:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=c8c0J45OT9Yl932GsdYv2AwQtbGF/OHxHNfMDgwvA1Y=; b=CzrQKKUy8jt+48vTpjxIEtGJmX/Cac0kU5LK3Z488c1D1bX1e0uo1hL5jpmnsJl3h2 sj+7ux/jBw4fFtRzRhdlBacJkucV4fIiRz62UyXZfsL0L5aQ7ELOjMcX7tCYIaNedU3G kNZvoS4xLtpGaIxQrXESiXtI9RjzhzeENt2ig= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references; b=U5WsVMQZtImU6NXgx/UzTGTl0TGgyUT+UUaOPqZCFGc2nbKY+w3pR9XfjtX2SanrNe IdqI4sO4AmxTTHUjvJH6m0WEJBKqRCTBcfhknRZuZUWBsqgouROyKl98TigqmFKRt+5f Cx+1Ofu8hmnRc7vNErwct5vLivkY7ICLGVN+M= Received: by 10.142.166.1 with SMTP id o1mr3982679wfe.345.1222968863528; Thu, 02 Oct 2008 10:34:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.142.139.12 with HTTP; Thu, 2 Oct 2008 10:34:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <96f789a60810021034l7126994ag183c994debd3632f@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 13:34:23 -0400 From: "Michael Turniansky" To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: drani a'o pinka zo pa jo'u zo su'o In-Reply-To: <200810012329.19647.eldrikdo@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <200809242052.08673.eldrikdo@gmail.com> <925d17560809261222j48b8220s2e72c973fae34a66@mail.gmail.com> <96f789a60809290803j52b4c52cy2216b421c5c8e123@mail.gmail.com> <200810012329.19647.eldrikdo@gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: -0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 14814 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: mturniansky@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 5:29 PM, Roman Naumann wrote: > On Monday 29 September 2008 17:03:07 Michael Turniansky wrote: > >> > .i lo do te sitna cu na srana lo me zo na poi selbri tcita .i ko tcidu > >> > zoi zoi > >> > >> ri ba'e du lo pagbu poi mi sitna ke'a > > .i na go'i > > .i ri vasru gi'enai du vau lo pagbu poi do sitna ke'a > > .i pe'u ko tcidu zoi zoi > > Let us consider the English sentence > > 11.1) Some children do not go to school. > > We cannot express this directly with ``na''; the apparently obvious > translation > > 11.2) su'oda poi verba > > na klama su'ode poi ckule > > At-least-one X which-are child(ren) > > [false] go-to at-least-one Y which-are school(s). > > which converts to the external negation: > > 11.3) naku zo'u su'oda poi verba > > cu klama su'ode poi ckule > > It is false that some which are children > > go-to some which are schools. > > All children don't go to some school > > (not just some children). > > Lojban provides a negation form which more closely emulates natural language > negation. This involves putting ``naku'' before the selbri, instead of a > ``na''. ``naku'' is clearly a contradictory negation, given its parallel > with prenex bridi negation. Using ``naku'', Example 11.1 can be expressed > > zoi > > .i mi zgana loza'i do to'e drani krici lodu'u lote pilno bezo na cu mutce > simsa lote pilno be zo'oi not > > -- zo na na'e mintu lu naku li'u .i zo na nafxu'a piro le bridi .i lu naku li'u nafxu'a lo tolyli'e po'o pagbu be le bridi --gejyspa To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.