From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Tue Oct 28 05:17:01 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Tue, 28 Oct 2008 05:17:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1KunVM-0001em-LT for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2008 05:17:01 -0700 Received: from fk-out-0910.google.com ([209.85.128.186]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1KunVE-0001du-Qy for lojban-list@lojban.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2008 05:17:00 -0700 Received: by fk-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id 18so3241818fks.2 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2008 05:16:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:sender :to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :content-disposition:x-google-sender-auth; bh=C85SNaihJlFMAlM8Fqu0LynOYx6oFlgLBgXacq/DD+Y=; b=hgo9mb9i/n5hVxLQfyTUxIBsShKxZ5IUcMluD+inqqZ6hOEOLXZS7Wb/ZonbIwIFBT iZ3ZvkZNH3r/qvV86QF473Heoc9DfcIiB5Exl248Fq2ntf3FZLKWRPptteMBDvm5K6Le cLv3VJgLkX7x24qaSRxUMiGv4rxtWa7kCdSds= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:x-google-sender-auth; b=BGA/3DEtQsiB/xVOWYjKexT3LkA4VPM90i9+JUPDVVXJtV9bc1pmG8m1d7GNCHnZ0+ VF8NeRAsvczqZ3rZAQohUE0rvspWMv/thUrBgkVWe2AOiu6lHr5u6tZiUZY+9Fvzrm6U V07oxlV9gCKlFz1eeQQ5UXYRXXpyUrllWeUm8= Received: by 10.181.139.10 with SMTP id r10mr2144877bkn.64.1225196211343; Tue, 28 Oct 2008 05:16:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.181.47.2 with HTTP; Tue, 28 Oct 2008 05:16:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4de8c3930810280516i411c5a76q60c7d9f63a0af6ee@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 13:16:51 +0100 From: tijlan To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] TOK (Theory of Knowledge) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Google-Sender-Auth: e641a810f897b7bc X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 14864 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: picos.picos@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list Some traditional questions about the relationship between Lojban and the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis from a recent blog post... "Does Man Really Have A Measuring Stick? : My TOK Response" http://tok-responsively.blogspot.com/2008/10/all-tok-and-world-journals.html lu [...] I was recently looking at some articles related to artificial languages, or languages that people speak just because they want to speak them. One artificial language caught my eye. It is called Lojban. [...] The logical language and the Sapir Whorf hypothesis relates to what we have been talking about in TOK lately. The class discussions have provoked such topics as the perception of knowers that come from different cultures and languages. If somebody was taught this language from birth, how would they see the world? Would the sense it as something clear and unimpeding of their thoughts as the grammar suggests? Or, would they see the world as an ambiguity. Because no nationality claims the language, would the person see themselves as different or neutral in comparison to the diversity that the world has to offer? How will their sense data be affected by the use of this language. Will their ability to see-as be better than the rest of us who have a less amibguous view of the world? There are a lot of questions about this, but the main difference is our perception of this knower. Are we being to hesitant to accept such an openness or disorganization? Do we perceive his type of knowing different than ours? Does that affect the way that we claim to use our senses to know? All of these are for the philosophers, give or take. But, in all surety, the knower's perspective will be different than ours. They will be able to see the world logically and clearly, and be able to speak in an amibiguity that will be stunning to most knowers. Although, this hypothesis of Sapir and Whorf has never been tested, if tested, the result could be a new perspective on the world, and the greater diversity of knowledge that we as human beings could encounter. li'u To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.