From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Thu Oct 30 13:33:07 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Thu, 30 Oct 2008 13:33:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1KveCZ-0003Uo-Ta for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Thu, 30 Oct 2008 13:33:07 -0700 Received: from yx-out-1718.google.com ([74.125.44.155]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1KveCX-0003UH-34 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Thu, 30 Oct 2008 13:33:07 -0700 Received: by yx-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id 4so388430yxp.46 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2008 13:33:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=qNE7HD8/xFZ2CN3S7t/nUsqisYLlJlOyKE5qjoIyWrc=; b=WJy0ogaoHjZ5nP1WakHb9Nxx3sejJYuiGPGVOAAyUxXPKtoFmPck7EmyMRyqxt3Ki0 LTMFHcnDoW7IPf0A9PYemMemAep4Zxrer/cu5r2++EJJnGtwF4tj41Q1kifv9PTuUmUO 9NaPoIcAoyrUR+fKWabUbHwKJCDzagJ4oBG7U= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references; b=c4aYApkPyFQ2/tbovwNrWzdGX8UCyoRzb0fWdKIcls/cUE7dETLD1EsQBYwh+NF+yO bvPs2WnabCtPznFuBjMiQ2IDkrPwNm/9XvcgJ6JGKcBvkQC9pMtYNx3x5NFQeteAPu99 aN6KV0kNEaOozJ8lBm1LhMLPY7pNWuMEpZP+E= Received: by 10.150.206.11 with SMTP id d11mr18222027ybg.27.1225398783499; Thu, 30 Oct 2008 13:33:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.150.218.18 with HTTP; Thu, 30 Oct 2008 13:33:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 12:33:03 -0800 From: "Stephen Pollei" To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: [lojban-beginners] A challenge for computer science/programming geeks: The LLG wants to give you $500! In-Reply-To: <20081030201301.GW1092@digitalkingdom.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <20081028215134.GK31434@digitalkingdom.org> <20081030192643.GV1092@digitalkingdom.org> <20081030201301.GW1092@digitalkingdom.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 14891 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: stephen.pollei@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list > > That's not even remotely the same language. For one thing, there's > no way to get to A, so it's actually: > > S => a+ B > B => b B? c > > which is just a^mb^nc^n, which is a completely different language. the weakened cfg clearly parses a superset of the example peg, that is true and I'm a 100% possitive that if you took you and xorxes peg things and reduced it to a cfg that it would also parse a superset of what your peg parses and do it ambiguiously to boot. > You may already understand this, and that's fine, I just want there > to be no confusion: a language that is as close to Lojban as that is > to a^nb^nc^n is of no use to us, and we won't pay out for it. Yes I never argued that the resultant cfg would be any good merely that it would parse all valid lojban that your peg already parses. Also I'd claim that the cfg would produce set of answers that would include your peg answer for any given valid lojban text which your peg parses. Also yes the resulting cfg would parse some text which is invalid lojban, especially at the word morphology level I see that it has some validation checks for things like invalid consonant clusters which the cfg version of it would lose. At the grammar level though I'm unsure if the extra invalid texts it would parse would: a) exist b) be noticeable . The one thing I'm certain of is that it would be ambigous not even handling {boi} correctly. The {boi} example is really what I thought was more interesting then the thought that you could weaken any peg. To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.