From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Tue Nov 11 06:05:20 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Tue, 11 Nov 2008 06:05:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Kztrs-0005v0-0j for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2008 06:05:20 -0800 Received: from gv-out-0910.google.com ([216.239.58.190]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Kztrn-0005uI-C4 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2008 06:05:19 -0800 Received: by gv-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id n8so224314gve.36 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2008 06:05:14 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:sender :to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references :x-google-sender-auth; bh=MCKXlI0mph/yypZrdAOjijcnFa/8NlmrpwBGHQGmELQ=; b=Wl0qJnfWIe+FdKtNMjYX7L1a/bOKIkh0rqaROCaNrcipUWiiC6f7q6G4g3sRBvpnN5 fW7Gf1vGbPR/AbF6Cmb9HkFpEJMciF0bVVuTE9nMESgBozo4tTAY8J+BApsH6YpwDmIb M6afDQnd4CJfZLqDJf1QIEHeHTTBxxZTOkuqE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references:x-google-sender-auth; b=W0CgdkUdbgPUuzN8ucS6gO5MCBtX0esLY/qpjUu7k5Tk6xWwQtg7qZNMdh7NEbkmhh EhqFuacFzM4fUBxdZaPbjykkNXf7htneFWf6xe5IBUgrLMdoiQipm6z0zIvgsiJC2/Gp QmvlBvwTYYW466fcCsQQeaEDF7NCM9tNKBnBw= Received: by 10.103.12.16 with SMTP id p16mr4546887mui.99.1226412313702; Tue, 11 Nov 2008 06:05:13 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.103.199.18 with HTTP; Tue, 11 Nov 2008 06:05:13 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <4de8c3930811110605u73597c74ye280491656add7e8@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 15:05:13 +0100 From: tijlan To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: le gusta co minde mutce In-Reply-To: <16e4f29a0811101950t59fa46cfof4fd83489ddcd8fd@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <2f91285f0810260835h78654a7dr11b5b5c0957bce70@mail.gmail.com> <4de8c3930811080122n7f91eea3v53fc4cce02d4d343@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560811081102l72b38fefp6a3adae34d562d71@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560811100828k50ff608ehc6a5ae96446807ef@mail.gmail.com> <16e4f29a0811101556rfea6759k672dd011cecc09d1@mail.gmail.com> <16e4f29a0811101558j1799d99bj7900b70c0b55c6a@mail.gmail.com> <4de8c3930811101800r501676d5id975aa96c932c19b@mail.gmail.com> <4de8c3930811101800y7ede0d46vc027081f0bd1179f@mail.gmail.com> <16e4f29a0811101950t59fa46cfof4fd83489ddcd8fd@mail.gmail.com> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 4d10fbadc0c24f2b X-Spam-Score: -0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 14995 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: picos.picos@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list 2008/11/11 Elias Friedman : > "I will buy butter" and "I go to the market" can, I believe, be considered > to be parts of one phrase, "I go to the market to buy butter". It can. But, cognition-wise, the order should be the other way around: "To buy butter, I go to the market". You don't go to the market and then firstly realize that what has motivated the action is the idea "to buy butter", usually. > Such an action could be motivated, to the best of my knowledge, > by "I have run out of butter, and I need butter". It could. But you can be precise a few steps further: The condition "I have run out of butter and I need butter" motivates the intention "I am willing to buy butter" which motivates the action "I go to the market. > "I will buy butter" is not by itself a motive. As an objectively unrealized future action, no it isn't. But as a subjectively perceived current idea, yes it is. This begs the question: Can such a statement "I will buy butter" be other than a perceptual idea? Can it have factual/historical bearings at all? mu'o mi'e tijlan To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.