From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Thu Dec 25 14:04:26 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Thu, 25 Dec 2008 14:04:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1LFyJd-0005IK-J5 for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Thu, 25 Dec 2008 14:04:26 -0800 Received: from mx.freeshell.org ([192.94.73.19] helo=sdf.lonestar.org ident=root) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1LFyJa-0005HV-6l for lojban-list@lojban.org; Thu, 25 Dec 2008 14:04:25 -0800 Received: from sdf.lonestar.org (IDENT:jwodder@sverige.freeshell.org [192.94.73.4]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.2/8.13.8) with ESMTP id mBPM45XA006164 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2008 22:04:05 GMT Received: (from jwodder@localhost) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.2/8.12.8/Submit) id mBPM45Ii002313 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Thu, 25 Dec 2008 22:04:05 GMT Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2008 22:04:05 +0000 From: Minimiscience To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: gleki xisri'i Message-ID: <20081225220403.GA29347@sdf.lonestar.org> References: <20081225043944.GA29775@sdf.lonestar.org> <20081225094052.GH10930@digitalkingdom.org> <20081225194149.GA28595@sdf.lonestar.org> <20081225202457.GJ10930@digitalkingdom.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20081225202457.GJ10930@digitalkingdom.org> Organization: SDF Public Access UNIX System User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 15148 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: minimiscience@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list de'i li 25 pi'e 12 pi'e 2008 la'o fy. Robin Lee Powell .fy. cusku zoi skamyxatra. > We asked for a general CFG, not something that only works in some > specific grammar generator. .skamyxatra When did you say that? In your original e-mail () you said, in addition to the passage quoted earlier, "Produce a working CFG for Lojban, in any format that some parser generator somewhere can accept...". I don't see any restriction to a general CFG anywhere in that thread. > Furthermore, and this is much more important, unless I'm really > missing something you're *changing the precedence as the grammar is > parsed*. That is, if a parse doesn't work without a particular > terminator you drop the precedence of that terminator-free > production to zero *at parse time*. If that's reducable to a > 4-tuple a la http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Context_free_grammar I'd > be *really* surprised indeed! That's not how it works. If the parser must choose between reducing the current construct and shifting the next terminal before reducing, it uses the precedence rules to determine which action to take, and these precedence rules are set in stone when Yacc parses its input. In the case of the Lojban grammar, if a construct can be terminated and the terminator is the next input symbol, the terminator is shifted onto the stack, and then the entire construct is reduced. This takes place regardless of whether it leads to a valid parse tree. See for more information. I also feel it worth pointing out that since most implementations of Yacc (including the ones I tested this with), when given the -v option, generate a file describing every state of the parsing automaton for the given grammar in all of its deterministic glory, any actions that the parser takes at runtime must be foreseeable and have results that can be predetermined in a context-free manner. mu'omi'e la'o gy. Minimiscience .gy. -- mi klama .i mi viska .i mi fanva fi la lojban. To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.