From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Thu Dec 25 20:18:54 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Thu, 25 Dec 2008 20:18:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1LG4A1-00081F-Sa for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Thu, 25 Dec 2008 20:18:53 -0800 Received: from mail-ew0-f21.google.com ([209.85.219.21]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1LG49y-0007zb-12 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Thu, 25 Dec 2008 20:18:53 -0800 Received: by ewy14 with SMTP id 14so4099511ewy.10 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 2008 20:18:43 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:sender :to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references :x-google-sender-auth; bh=WUfyDPKLAGWHyks5Y1S4iCIsvdLZlXbecMf5i7ucJ+8=; b=x+qkhxXcmvzt5L/gk80UcJeSFi61XjKgBnLPX2G39ZnRYox+65qQlNciwnXB35Vh9/ cV4zqFT+IE09jJVYryJQpsrPNTRwGBF1PnQOmiPEVXY88bb6G7AZiJbpDD5FcMK0C4qH 823IPJzTJwABUJS3Suu50UHwupOim8ppvKgcM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references:x-google-sender-auth; b=eD51DGHSQXL+/YaqHwvVsqMg+TtYLCdp5sa62zv+nu7XLbYoC/OXj1HEAfX7Wq5LQs IzLo6YsHb/yT2K7S58JlS1mnFu+MYxTW3q3jnhiIP8cc1Sp24JCPk751ihQ3Tm6oZqCW xTHOpuxQP4yCjK4JAWD81K1ocL9qyQQBuUGwE= Received: by 10.210.78.16 with SMTP id a16mr12051960ebb.187.1230265123875; Thu, 25 Dec 2008 20:18:43 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.210.129.1 with HTTP; Thu, 25 Dec 2008 20:18:43 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3ccac5f10812252018h34447cabm8bbb7f819c6ac1af@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2008 07:18:43 +0300 From: "Cyril Slobin" To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: gleki xisri'i In-Reply-To: <20081226032911.GM10930@digitalkingdom.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <20081225043944.GA29775@sdf.lonestar.org> <20081225094052.GH10930@digitalkingdom.org> <20081225194149.GA28595@sdf.lonestar.org> <3ccac5f10812251622v5e4d1389mfc03381c6d041f5f@mail.gmail.com> <3ccac5f10812251650l45c44633ufbdbd196ec2a8771@mail.gmail.com> <20081226032911.GM10930@digitalkingdom.org> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 87245faac9de4257 X-Spam-Score: -0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 15161 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: cyril@slobin.pp.ru Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list On Fri, Dec 26, 2008 at 6:29 AM, Robin Lee Powell wrote: > The problem is that there *is* grammatical ambiguity: the sentence > *could* be an error; If one counts the ambiguities with could-be errors, than any and every phrase is ambiguous. And any sequence of lojban words become valid if one just says that someone forgot lo'u..le'u around it. ;-) > nu le broda broda KU KEI is perfectly valid, it's just > not a valid Lojban utterance by itself. It is not, we need bridi inside nu..KEI, not sumti. > Saying that the parser will find *some* valid parse if it exists > strikes me as expanding Lojban rather a lot. When I read the word "if no ambiguity occurs", I treat it like "if parser found two or more parses, then the phrase is wrong; but if exactly one can be found, it's OK". > I imagine that figuring out that "nu le broda broda" means "nu le broda KU > broda KEI" in real time would *really* suck. I don't think a human could > keep up. I agree. I do not suggest to change the rules, I am trying to say that we need a better explanation of "the innermost the longest" rule. In fact we need *some* explanation of this rule: it is a common lojban lore, but I haven't seen it written explicitly in CLL or elsewhere. And I believe that the explanation should *not* refer to YACC, LALR, and other low-level tech details. We must found a way to explain this in the language terms. -- http://slobin.pp.ru/ `When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, `it means just what I choose it to mean' To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.