From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Sun Jan 25 13:59:10 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Sun, 25 Jan 2009 13:59:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1LRD0X-0001L1-ML for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Sun, 25 Jan 2009 13:59:10 -0800 Received: from wf-out-1314.google.com ([209.85.200.173]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1LRD0U-0001Ks-G9 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Sun, 25 Jan 2009 13:59:09 -0800 Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 28so6043470wfa.25 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2009 13:59:05 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=gWpYUKqSH306iy+nfkr2eVAAky9mjyFKPTli6j9hN0I=; b=g0DwMS6ZbNJImBgAHmtf1Tl07mamgjwm9aH3UL+yDJzHgo1ThKViBeNkqLl1I3ZAdb ugypyP14c/RKabyn0LIOm+JVYCi4qe/lxc1nAcEIQbJWMUVAuOZh0P57kVtMg3ojhBHM TqHL3ztnRyCqkm3FiG4ffSMFHJb1fCHGX/1+Y= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=HIFoH0u0snPQkHJA1r5T6lBstAOvsa/oq1QoF6eendc2pL3WUNsNU/pvbccrpFYZcP 3+lSke/anjbK11XxngMMuqdueVhHEMfQPiboDyJu02oQtNpjuCHlL3nmu6KzN2owJI/Y ybCc3jdkI1e9mDvxb/kpfdxSYCfDv/wvxlQvk= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.142.241.15 with SMTP id o15mr1548161wfh.104.1232920745513; Sun, 25 Jan 2009 13:59:05 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 16:59:05 -0500 Message-ID: <96f789a60901251359h30a40b4v13626407266a25d@mail.gmail.com> Subject: [lojban] Re: place tag confusion From: Michael Turniansky To: lojban-list@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd1469012921c046155bbfc X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 15247 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: mturniansky@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list --000e0cd1469012921c046155bbfc Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Jan 24, 2009 at 4:41 PM, winkerbean wrote: > > place tag confusion > > Author: winkerbean > > coi rodo > > The jboski page translates 'fi lo skami cu tavla mi' to 'any/some which a= re > computers are the subject of talking to Me', suggesting the place tag > switching is temporary and limited to the one sumti. However, based on L4= B > (chapter 2) and the LRG (chapter 4), it should translate to 'any/some whi= ch > are computers are the subject of a talk in language Me'. > > Specifically, LRG says: > "What if some sumti have FA tags and others do not? The rule is that afte= r > a FA-tagged sumti, any sumti following it occupy the places numerically > succeeding it, subject to the proviso that an already-filled place is > skipped" > > and L4B says: > "After a place introduced with a place tag, any trailing places follow it > in numbering. So in > > la suzyn. klama fo la .uacintyn. le karce > Susan goes via Washington by car > > la .uacintyn. is the fourth place of klama, and le karce is understood as > the place following the fourth place =E2=80=94 i.e. the fifth place." > > Someone in IRC commented: > "I think the right-hand side always starts with x2" > > I think this would make an acceptable exception, *if* I could find the > documentation of it. > > Any thoughts and/or clarifications as to which is correct? (I would thin= k > a sizable portion of translations depend on the answer. Or, at the least= , > it does for Me.) > jboski is wrong, the grammar is correct. This is one of the known areas where jboski doesn't interpret it according to what the grammar says it should. --gejyspa --000e0cd1469012921c046155bbfc Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Sat, Jan 24, 2009 at 4:41 PM, winkerb= ean <lojban-o= ut@lojban.org> wrote:

place tag confusion

Author: winkerbean

coi rodo

The jboski page translates 'fi lo skami cu tavla mi' to 'any/so= me which are computers are the subject of talking to Me', suggesting th= e place tag switching is temporary and limited to the one sumti. However, b= ased on L4B (chapter 2) and the LRG (chapter 4), it should translate to = 9;any/some which are computers are the subject of a talk in language Me'= ;.

Specifically, LRG says:
"What if some sumti have FA tags and others do not? The rule is that a= fter a FA-tagged sumti, any sumti following it occupy the places numericall= y succeeding it, subject to the proviso that an already-filled place is ski= pped"

and L4B says:
"After a place introduced with a place tag, any trailing places follow= it in numbering. So in

la suzyn. klama fo la .uacintyn. le karce
Susan goes via Washington by car

la .uacintyn. is the fourth place of klama, and le karce is understood as t= he place following the fourth place =E2=80=94 i.e. the fifth place."
Someone in IRC commented:
"I think the right-hand side always starts with x2"

I think this would make an acceptable exception, *if* I could find the docu= mentation of it.

Any thoughts and/or clarifications as to which is correct?  (I would t= hink a sizable portion of translations depend on the answer.  Or, at t= he least, it does for Me.)

  jboski is wrong, the grammar is  correct.=   This is one of the known areas where jboski doesn't interpret i= t according to what the grammar says it should.

   &n= bsp;            = ;     --gejyspa


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