From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Mon May 18 13:29:22 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Mon, 18 May 2009 13:29:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1M69Sb-00007H-Nq for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Mon, 18 May 2009 13:29:21 -0700 Received: from yx-out-1718.google.com ([74.125.44.156]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1M69ST-00005i-VN for lojban-list@lojban.org; Mon, 18 May 2009 13:29:21 -0700 Received: by yx-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id 36so10805992yxh.46 for ; Mon, 18 May 2009 13:29:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=XnnW61DMLWvsTt92vsbAGuukz3AL77RWJ0y5VcQn1Gw=; b=RU7vs7siG3YgzNOJyoxiTNByckOMP7M5jJbmYG/ZQSpAV2z1mCvAWR7etx5QBJMu7d 4vyUlRtsjElayWimenv+Z73antfCvskB2cLDz7414JaHklKW2ub9PELD9fZ2YRpuSGb/ 1X26Yr/qMEYrs6rnYqTh1+ViQJOdfSVPNplZg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=LXjeEmpuz3izZZxGPDhyah02hNwOU0GeG8LMV+DaaZjurinha+QSko8wLCufGS+A3Z 4UVHrObfqQg9OeU6ZlDwvudpvKO2B+1qbiu7GMgcusHD8aQDsYBQAlVR0IG5ni2BIMjF 7l97q/eX4zehicLb3qeEbkOtxEeWePsgGdibc= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.151.72.1 with SMTP id z1mr13407688ybk.170.1242678552902; Mon, 18 May 2009 13:29:12 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <5715b9300905181311h3a3ac22vb84791f1c2c15306@mail.gmail.com> References: <5715b9300905181311h3a3ac22vb84791f1c2c15306@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 16:29:12 -0400 Message-ID: <96f789a60905181329m664c7153w2e426d70a6044f8b@mail.gmail.com> Subject: [lojban] Re: patfu? From: Michael Turniansky To: lojban-list@lojban.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis X-archive-position: 15589 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: mturniansky@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 4:11 PM, Luke Bergen wrote: > So I was thinking about this earlier.  When babies are first learning to > talk they don't say "father" as their first word.  It's usually some kind of > "dada" sound.  Also, patfu sounds so formal.  For when babies are first > learning to talk how acceptable would things like referring to one's > paternal gardian as "pa'u" be? > > Would this be the kind of thing where getting excited over "pa'u" is > understandable but the next step would be to encourage them to say "patfu"? > Also, "patfu" sounds kind of ugly, would it be common/understandable to have > a child call their parent "la paf" or "la pa'us" as similar to what "pop" is > in english? > While my wife is much for the language acquisition specialist than me (she has a bachelor's in Speech Language Pathology, and a Master in Special Education), I can say from the perspective of a father of five kids: 1) I don't think a kid is likely to say "pa'u". /h/ is a relatively late sound to develop. 'pa.u' is more likely. But probably, 'patu' would be the closest a baby is gonna get to patfu. (cf. French papa, Yiddish tatty, Farsi bapu). 2) 'paf' would be fine for an older kid/grownup to refer to their father, exactly equivalent to "Dad" or "Pop", but a baby wouldn't be able to manage the final /f/ so well, either. 3) Any lojbanic father would be thrilled to hear their kid say 'patu' for the first time!! (Later, we can correct the kid that it really means 'one of those' ;-) ) 4) "pa'u" of course already has a meaning, "having part___", so I wouldn't encourage my kid to make that sound. 5) "patfu" being ugly is strictly a judgement call on your part, but it certainly would sound very formal as a term of address, equivalent to "Father". --gejyspa To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.