From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Mon May 18 13:38:23 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Mon, 18 May 2009 13:38:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1M69bL-00010z-CU for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Mon, 18 May 2009 13:38:23 -0700 Received: from qw-out-1920.google.com ([74.125.92.146]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1M69bG-0000zx-0d for lojban-list@lojban.org; Mon, 18 May 2009 13:38:22 -0700 Received: by qw-out-1920.google.com with SMTP id 5so2513315qwc.58 for ; Mon, 18 May 2009 13:38:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=VRhbq2E1YJm3/HNMTaf2a8jlq/C5meAPwn91uEZ8bnQ=; b=AwpqwtOw+tlWqrXJxy469TxtguMpd+AxODQlwQEYks47wqYWRUkcBtFJpK4DWMwVSk ltSm4zXm9MAI7S/HtyefP9rHXEO374DhiGxd/5s7HwMWnivXF3Qh0ED4D8QTUVHmk+CS cK6vZyXIHNcfNywiufI4mNO+S6Q/nVYWNyFU8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=THCfp4zAXEw3Kg+Ia5qzwWQC3p8al5uDj1iM1KKtjnJP9tOssOLlLUnaSVpqwGGJsr qn5bp1viHMRJ1xp0naHUp5EoZ5JfRWaOUBZf8wPknMp+1X5bt4HIPPqXMqnBssRVwVnl dddI2Cbv4JTqvI71oZoL7/Net3e6+JWZBwq9U= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.220.93.65 with SMTP id u1mr7329227vcm.59.1242679096199; Mon, 18 May 2009 13:38:16 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <96f789a60905181329m664c7153w2e426d70a6044f8b@mail.gmail.com> References: <5715b9300905181311h3a3ac22vb84791f1c2c15306@mail.gmail.com> <96f789a60905181329m664c7153w2e426d70a6044f8b@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 16:38:15 -0400 Message-ID: <5715b9300905181338t6d21b092ye6cbcdef6e1a7fb1@mail.gmail.com> Subject: [lojban] Re: patfu? From: Luke Bergen To: lojban-list@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016364ed386194bd3046a35c65d X-archive-position: 15590 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list --0016364ed386194bd3046a35c65d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit given point 5 (and my wife explicitly saying that "patfu sounds kind of ugly and formal" which I agree with) you do say that using "paf" is acceptable as long as it's used as a name right? Actually, could I make up any word as long as it fits the requirements of a name? - Luke Bergen On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 4:29 PM, Michael Turniansky wrote: > On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 4:11 PM, Luke Bergen > wrote: > > So I was thinking about this earlier. When babies are first learning to > > talk they don't say "father" as their first word. It's usually some kind > of > > "dada" sound. Also, patfu sounds so formal. For when babies are first > > learning to talk how acceptable would things like referring to one's > > paternal gardian as "pa'u" be? > > > > Would this be the kind of thing where getting excited over "pa'u" is > > understandable but the next step would be to encourage them to say > "patfu"? > > Also, "patfu" sounds kind of ugly, would it be common/understandable to > have > > a child call their parent "la paf" or "la pa'us" as similar to what "pop" > is > > in english? > > > > While my wife is much for the language acquisition specialist than > me (she has a bachelor's in Speech Language Pathology, and a Master in > Special Education), I can say from the perspective of a father of five > kids: > 1) I don't think a kid is likely to say "pa'u". /h/ is a relatively > late sound to develop. 'pa.u' is more likely. But probably, 'patu' > would be the closest a baby is gonna get to patfu. (cf. French papa, > Yiddish tatty, Farsi bapu). > 2) 'paf' would be fine for an older kid/grownup to refer to their > father, exactly equivalent to "Dad" or "Pop", but a baby wouldn't be > able to manage the final /f/ so well, either. > 3) Any lojbanic father would be thrilled to hear their kid say 'patu' > for the first time!! (Later, we can correct the kid that it really > means 'one of those' ;-) ) > 4) "pa'u" of course already has a meaning, "having part___", so I > wouldn't encourage my kid to make that sound. > 5) "patfu" being ugly is strictly a judgement call on your part, but > it certainly would sound very formal as a term of address, equivalent > to "Father". > > --gejyspa > > > To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org > with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if > you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help. > > --0016364ed386194bd3046a35c65d Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable given point 5 (and my wife explicitly saying that "patfu sounds kind o= f ugly and formal" which I agree with) you do say that using "paf= " is acceptable as long as it's used as a name right?=A0 Actually,= could I make up any word as long as it fits the requirements of a name?
- Luke Bergen


On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 4:29 PM, Michael= Turniansky <= mturniansky@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 4:11 PM, Luke Ber= gen <lukeabergen@gmail.com&= gt; wrote:
> So I was thinking about this earlier.=A0 When babies are first learnin= g to
> talk they don't say "father" as their first word.=A0 It&= #39;s usually some kind of
> "dada" sound.=A0 Also, patfu sounds so formal.=A0 For when b= abies are first
> learning to talk how acceptable would things like referring to one'= ;s
> paternal gardian as "pa'u" be?
>
> Would this be the kind of thing where getting excited over "pa= 9;u" is
> understandable but the next step would be to encourage them to say &qu= ot;patfu"?
> Also, "patfu" sounds kind of ugly, would it be common/unders= tandable to have
> a child call their parent "la paf" or "la pa'us&quo= t; as similar to what "pop" is
> in english?
>

=A0While my wife is much for the language acquisition speciali= st than
me (she has a bachelor's in Speech Language Pathology, and a Master in<= br> Special Education), I can say from the perspective of a father of five
kids:
1) =A0I don't think a kid is likely to say "pa'u". /h/ is= a relatively
late sound to develop. =A0'pa.u' is more likely. =A0But probably, &= #39;patu'
would be the closest a baby is gonna get to patfu. =A0(cf. French papa,
Yiddish tatty, =A0Farsi bapu).
2) 'paf' would be fine for an older kid/grownup to refer to their father, exactly equivalent to "Dad" or "Pop", but a bab= y wouldn't be
able to manage the final /f/ so well, either.
3) Any lojbanic father would be thrilled to hear their kid say 'patu= 9;
for the first time!! (Later, we can correct the kid that it really
means 'one of those' ;-) )
4) "pa'u" of course already has a meaning, "having part_= __", so I
wouldn't encourage my kid to make that sound.
5) "patfu" being ugly is strictly a judgement call on your part, = but
it certainly would sound very formal as a term of address, equivalent
to "Father".

=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0--gejyspa


To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org
with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.


--0016364ed386194bd3046a35c65d-- To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.