From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Sun Jun 21 20:02:41 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Sun, 21 Jun 2009 20:02:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MIZns-0005Np-Le for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Sun, 21 Jun 2009 20:02:40 -0700 Received: from mail-ew0-f223.google.com ([209.85.219.223]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MIZnn-0005JA-9J for lojban-list@lojban.org; Sun, 21 Jun 2009 20:02:40 -0700 Received: by ewy23 with SMTP id 23so1073243ewy.34 for ; Sun, 21 Jun 2009 20:02:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=zw3kdy2PKaTK3NrYo1Ona/RNVqFJSRn1dO9Og1N9bBg=; b=L4Ebzp+3HiU8uqzLBRLRfnHO/Qk70R3s1gcurT+VJszRcRVY9plEJPVNBvL5hL9CAf GGqJ8bpIQ/0JzsyISAvp88O+HzjciNRuXd5ec9VtfKFnTEQb5RCi7dXiVi18gQyfVkjk SQhP6T9jMEF5cc4GjHNuol/yNnTud8o7cOnoI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=f4nHeHIegfrGvSPkT+dto2Mz/Caxr040WYpnWF/Jp9Z1SxSDkOkCEPa7aY+XasxO6/ /IKlwY+fe3oq/rdiuEo1EpATSJSMzMtT6UWQQFzEfj/zEUaXjq8/4sjeVXn8TMgxg+uX /vGmvmXhOsWEi5TEeERJH47c3K2r9Pzqg3mlc= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.70.208 with SMTP id p58mr1979260wed.29.1245639748538; Sun, 21 Jun 2009 20:02:28 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <291406.38713.qm@web50408.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <479039.23077.qm@web50403.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20090621202955.GC23324@nvg.org> <836491.16571.qm@web50405.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <425e4ac20906211906n440c0184t9b5f2630b8f99f91@mail.gmail.com> <291406.38713.qm@web50408.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2009 23:02:28 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 962c83918c65f8fe Message-ID: <12d58c160906212002r3fea58bfgd49507bcc3e4676e@mail.gmail.com> Subject: [lojban] Re: Regarding the gismu {vlagi}. From: "komfo,amonan" To: lojban-list@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00504502d4a9bad35b046ce71a28 X-archive-position: 15686 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: komfoamonan@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list --00504502d4a9bad35b046ce71a28 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Sun, Jun 21, 2009 at 10:27 PM, Lindar Greenwood wrote: > > So, I'm still confused on the opinions of various jbopre. > Should it be freed up, or do we just not care? Abandoning the definition of {vlagi} doesn't really free it up to be used for another word. Gismu are constructed by a particular algorithm. If more gismu were to be added, the algorithm would be applied & would yield whatever it would yield. Moreover, the gismu list is AFAIK closed. There are some experimental gismu lying around ({kibro} and {talno} jump to mind), but AFAIK there's no mechanism for incorporating new canonical gismu (with the exception of the proposed {kanpe}). mu'o mi'e komfo,amonan ----- Original Message ---- > From: Stela Selckiku > To: lojban-list@lojban.org > Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 7:06:48 PM > Subject: [lojban] Re: Regarding the gismu {vlagi}. > > On Sun, Jun 21, 2009 at 5:40 PM, Lindar Greenwood > wrote: > > > > Couldn't this word be freed up to be used for another word? > > > Yes. The whole language could be freed up, and you could replace it > with one that makes sense. Good luck. ;) > > > > I mean, if we're making specialised words for things, why don't we > > have a word specifically for "switch" {vrabatke/vraga batke} or "door" > > {vrogai} instead of calling them lever-buttons and passageway-covers? > > > We do have specialized words for switch and door, they're just not > gismu. There's no shame in being a lujvo. They're just words-- it > takes practice remember to even be able to tell that "vrogai" is in a > different category because of the diphthong at the end. One could > just as easily imagine a Lojban where things were reversed, and we had > a word for "switch" which was made into "button" by saying > "flat+switch" and a word for "door" that was made into "doorway" by > saying "door+hole". I don't see any particular reason to prefer that > Lojban over ours. > > > > Even then, I've had a large argument over my preference for the word > > {vrabatke} because most feel that {batke} covers all manner of actuators, > > switches, buttons, dials, etc. and there's no need to differentiate > between > > them. > > > I think that "vrabatke" is a beautiful word, and I intend to use it > myself. It's true though that "batke" does include switches and so > forth-- the general rule with gismu is that their meanings are very > broad. So in my opinion a switch can be called a "batke", or it can > be called a "vrabatke" if you want to be more specific. > > > mu'o mi'e la selckiku > > > To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org > with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if > you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help. > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org > with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if > you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help. > > --00504502d4a9bad35b046ce71a28 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Jun 21, 2009 at 10:27 PM, Lindar Greenwood <lindarthebard@yahoo.com> wrote:

So, I'm still confused on the opinions of various jbopre.
Should it be freed up, or do we just not care?

Abandon= ing the definition of {vlagi} doesn't really free it up to be used for = another word. Gismu are constructed by a particular algorithm. If more gism= u were to be added, the algorithm would be applied & would yield whatev= er it would yield.

Moreover, the gismu list is AFAIK closed. There are some experimental g= ismu lying around ({kibro} and {talno} jump to mind), but AFAIK there's= no mechanism for incorporating new canonical gismu (with the exception of = the proposed {kanpe}).

mu'o mi'e komfo,amonan


----- Original Message ----
From: Stela Selckiku <selckiku@gma= il.com>
To: lojban-list@lojban.org Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 7:06:48 PM
Subject: [lojban] Re: Regarding the gismu {vlagi}.

On Sun, Jun 21, 2009 at 5:40 PM, Li= ndar Greenwood
<lindarthebard@yahoo.com&= gt; wrote:
>
> Couldn't this word be freed up to be used for another word?


Yes. =C2=A0The whole language could be freed up, and you could replace it with one that makes sense. =C2=A0Good luck. ;)


> I mean, if we're making specialised words for things, why don'= t we
> have a word specifically for "switch" {vrabatke/vraga batke}= or "door"
> {vrogai} instead of calling them lever-buttons and passageway-covers?<= br>

We do have specialized words for switch and door, they're just not
gismu. =C2=A0There's no shame in being a lujvo. =C2=A0They're just = words-- it
takes practice remember to even be able to tell that "vrogai" is = in a
different category because of the diphthong at the end. =C2=A0One could
just as easily imagine a Lojban where things were reversed, and we had
a word for "switch" which was made into "button" by say= ing
"flat+switch" and a word for "door" that was made into = "doorway" by
saying "door+hole". =C2=A0I don't see any particular reason t= o prefer that
Lojban over ours.


> Even then, I've had a large argument over my preference for the wo= rd
> {vrabatke} because most feel that {batke} covers all manner of actuato= rs,
> switches, buttons, dials, etc. and there's no need to differentiat= e between
> them.


I think that "vrabatke" is a beautiful word, and I intend to use = it
myself. =C2=A0It's true though that "batke" does include swit= ches and so
forth-- the general rule with gismu is that their meanings are very
broad. =C2=A0So in my opinion a switch can be called a "batke", o= r it can
be called a "vrabatke" if you want to be more specific.


mu'o mi'e la selckiku


To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org
with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.





To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org
with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.


--00504502d4a9bad35b046ce71a28-- To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.