From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Wed Jul 08 13:01:50 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Wed, 08 Jul 2009 13:01:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MOdKv-0007Km-OY for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Wed, 08 Jul 2009 13:01:50 -0700 Received: from web88005.mail.re2.yahoo.com ([206.190.37.192]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MOdKn-0007Ie-NJ for lojban-list@lojban.org; Wed, 08 Jul 2009 13:01:49 -0700 Received: (qmail 35526 invoked by uid 60001); 8 Jul 2009 20:01:34 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=rogers.com; s=s1024; t=1247083294; bh=QX9lrkDmNbX7OMg95l4kGH0svdvVaIly65pZ3914Xz8=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=i8R7esEqa3r6vWFpjxYF5ygmflaGwhnTeqMmGgEL2whX237ETTDQ696rgpovAliZhasx7aHmsX9+CoHkMCPBW9YcawNsxyZzmFbyvEb+Jm7PNZpQeq2LbjHGXByrqo2Ef+16fVXQANoTWwFK/+9pl57FBRf+UofcezS70msfaWI= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=rogers.com; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=nc99kWeu9RR0DfqNADjqvJjmWJXOQGOPmBXhJk6rL002NWoY+38fFp8HukT68wPi47UNQU8LxAdH5gfpDtzFCKdXU1L9HLIom6oOkDRXPAgRAnQqqU3huPFxXLdEmE05x5+KHiu4wdozYFXjMjVfRdXcJC9XrSE6W7mgetkRhL0=; Message-ID: <741115.34057.qm@web88005.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: 7QJl0T4VM1mtjYGcLpU_8ZURQmFnuOR8MBdgdJQ.82TuPjZe.2R3uoe9gnVRvG2_lWb6jvO2oVUJxwXp_1nATnn3ZRq5loXIJATjqLmGjlnvyUVi2sp6K7lFqY7Ws_4cq4sFULPGxoJNK3EpAJaji4_kdWFb.RyyplGLS2X9VPM0bgLUR_UTmH1NiPcd7RpHHw5H5SnuGIOt7WdRRtHs9k4KTY2I5djZ36ab70hwdw393wwSStVDp3igcv8G_59nhloWr7MpgMX4hqxt12Xfq2eEK_aLENftxACb8eFM8A-- Received: from [99.229.170.85] by web88005.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 08 Jul 2009 13:01:34 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/1357.22 YahooMailWebService/0.7.289.10 Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 13:01:34 -0700 (PDT) From: "A. PIEKARSKI" Subject: [lojban] Re: cmene for Los Angeles To: lojban-list@lojban.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-621109224-1247083294=:34057" X-archive-position: 15747 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: totus@rogers.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list --0-621109224-1247083294=:34057 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks, everybody.=0A=A0=0AMy take on this, having read your comments,=A0is= that =0A{lasANdjylys} would be it....but for the rules!=0A=A0=0AWith both = {la} and {ndj} disallowed, the closest we can =0Aget there would seem to be= {losANjylys}.=A0 It seems =0Aclose enough, and I don't think we should be = going =0Ato the original Spanish.=A0=A0Surely 'local' means 'local' now.=0A= =A0=0A=A0=0ABut all this brings up, yet again, the question of what is =0Am= eant by 'local' pronunciation.=0A=A0=0AIf you overdo the 'local', you end u= p with problems.=A0 For example, =0Awhat is local in London?=A0 East End Co= ckney sounds nothing like =0Amiddle-class Mayfair.=A0 How about Zurich?=A0 = There are several =0Adialects of Schweizerteutsch in that city alone.=A0 Ho= w should =0AShanghai be pronounced? As in the local regional language Wu, = =0Aor in the urban Shanghainese dialect of Wu (spoken by only a =0Aminority= of=A0the city's=A0inhabitants - just like Cockney).=0A=A0=0AFor me=A0'loca= l' means the official or 'average' pronunciation =0Ain the relevent country= .=A0 In the case of Shanghai, that would be =0Abased on the official Mandar= in.=A0 In Canada, Montreal would have two =0Aacceptable pronunciations: myn= tre,IOL (from English) and more,AL =0A(from French).=A0 India presents an i= nteresting case, as the official =0Apronunciations are the ones based on th= e official=A0 languages =0Aof the states in which the cities are located.= =A0 So we have =0AMumbai (in Marathi), Kolkata (in Bengali) and Dilli (in H= indi).=0A=A0=0Amu'o mi'e andrus --0-621109224-1247083294=:34057 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
=0A

Thanks, everybody.

=0A

 

=0A

My take on this, havi= ng read your comments, is that

=0A

{lasANdjylys} would be it....= but for the rules!

=0A

 

=0A

With both {la} and {ndj} disall= owed, the closest we can

=0A

get there would seem to be {losANjylys}.=   It seems

=0A

close enough, and I don't think we should be goin= g

=0A

to the original Spanish.  Surely 'local' means 'local= ' now.

=0A

 

=0A

 

=0A

But all this brings up, yet= again, the question of what is

=0A

meant by 'local' pronunciation.=0A

 

=0A

If you overdo the 'local', you end up with problems= .  For example,

=0A

what is local in London?  East End Cock= ney sounds nothing like

=0A

middle-class Mayfair.  How about Zur= ich?  There are several

=0A

dialects of Schweizerteutsch in that= city alone.  How should

=0A

Shanghai be pronounced? As in the l= ocal regional language Wu,

=0A

or in the urban Shanghainese dialect o= f Wu (spoken by only a

=0A

minority of the city's inhabitan= ts - just like Cockney).

=0A

 

=0A

For me 'local' means= the official or 'average' pronunciation

=0A

in the relevent country.=   In the case of Shanghai, that would be

=0A

based on the offici= al Mandarin.  In Canada, Montreal would have two

=0A

acceptable = pronunciations: myntre,IOL (from English) and more,AL

=0A

(from Frenc= h).  India presents an interesting case, as the official

=0A

pro= nunciations are the ones based on the official  languages

=0A

of= the states in which the cities are located.  So we have

=0A

Mum= bai (in Marathi), Kolkata (in Bengali) and Dilli (in Hindi).

=0A

 = ;

=0A

mu'o mi'e andrus

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