From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Mon Aug 24 16:01:20 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Mon, 24 Aug 2009 16:01:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MfiXP-0003cn-Ud for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 16:01:20 -0700 Received: from mail-vw0-f179.google.com ([209.85.212.179]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MfiXN-0003cd-DI for lojban-list@lojban.org; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 16:01:19 -0700 Received: by vws9 with SMTP id 9so2189393vws.25 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 16:01:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:date:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=wITJpbgWvKnDLkS5B5CdJxiwLsuvF16hopLjIbyPC74=; b=AhFchaNqf8YnPmSN9yex4WMGDTMYyxL8zdgZOyzptIm5OlLn/qP+s4jG8fYbAMaVwy 0OI5xbZEBmIl0gC0pjMCzwMEJDzf6Nn7ZNe25hncqbEue8zIfgTeAY4FlUUl1T3DhBD2 Uymz64J8HG2ugvucJ+YU0dQKt41XXZi9zeLCQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=EUnlvSbhvETZkDGgIR+UdauQZVAUfzzhZ7oRFK0GdhcRyTUBv2PU8ay7Nx11TQtnbZ t7EqhetZzdD3j0Zg/150Kv7ktyTY8ODcwCChQciI55Zv2GRa3qjvRDaZrVOQDgdivBNp sjWG8Gbg+8C+/CQskzEhJ16zBhZIEyqsIpvEM= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.220.17.81 with SMTP id r17mr6755347vca.10.1251154870951; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 16:01:10 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 19:01:10 -0400 Message-ID: <95b2fb130908241601l2158bee9od0d07e3de204a00d@mail.gmail.com> Subject: [lojban] How many possible gismu? From: "H. Felton" To: Lojban Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-archive-position: 16004 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: fagricipni@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list This question is not of any immediate practical importance; I am _not_ suggesting or considering making any new gismu; however, I am not saying that I would absolutely never approve of it during the baseline period, but it would take some highly unusual (and extremely unlikely) events for me to do so. What I am imagining is a future where Lojban has a large base of users, and on rare occasions a concept is found to be so commonly used and so important that it would unreasonable to deny it a gismu. The question I really want answered is: What is the _smallest_ number of new gismu that could fill up gismu space? -- remember any gismu, current or proposed, blocks up other possible gismu: "If the proposed gismu was identical to an existing gismu except for a single consonant, and the consonant was 'too similar' based on the following table, then the proposed gismu was rejected." This is in addition to the rule that two gismu can not differ in only the final vowel; the brod-series is an exception. (In retrospect, it would have probably have been better to use rafsi cmavo for the assignable pro-bridi, but it's to late to change now.) So as I've said I really want to know: What is the _smallest_ number of new gismu that could fill up gismu space? However, I don't see a way to answer that except by a brute-force algorithm, so I thought to answer the simpler question: What is the _smallest_ number of gismu that could fill gismu space, starting from an empty gismu space? However, I have not been able to think of a way to answer that without a brute-force algorithm, either; because it is possible for two gismu to block up some of the same "possible" gismu. The reason that I ask this is that in the future that I imagine in the first paragraph, I want to know how "extensible" the set of gismu is. I ask for the _smallest_ number on the assumption that maximizing the number of possible gismu will not be a consideration early on; so finding the worse possible filling would, if anything, underestimate the number of gismu that would have to be created in this hypothetical future to fill gismu space. To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.