From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Mon Sep 14 17:26:14 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Mon, 14 Sep 2009 17:26:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MnLs5-0001ul-Sy for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Mon, 14 Sep 2009 17:26:14 -0700 Received: from web110401.mail.gq1.yahoo.com ([67.195.8.225]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MnLs1-0001uT-7b for lojban-list@lojban.org; Mon, 14 Sep 2009 17:26:13 -0700 Received: (qmail 37518 invoked by uid 60001); 15 Sep 2009 00:26:02 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s1024; t=1252974362; bh=1USdAHaGNbLimN86lBpLhTa/b6O6cYS6+LXVL0lOaGk=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=0J84Oi8RzdbZ+ujH3VvCyo6Zlf7xJubunqC08TAJrICHZp5VOBlqrAns2JyyCQH9s3UNw5B5My/EGaablw/EDE0U4HOEiBTVpwGc4v2B9ZTBuI5WYvF05qnJIPnQ1/y+kNU2+jFa6h0vRyrhT5Q35YJ0m/jHmIWvoFr9H6WVTc4= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=hsJglXZnfpRCS9VDK7BlcuL9N4qu6tdlgQFlCWGHiTMZzzsoLrYfW6CdLt9tUt/oapQgmeZPl0+KU/NlxjxRqmLtxv/ze1uo4vq3hEXZ+tyDVmkqpcNgo+C4qCOaNZgr3ddDSFkXQ+QeY2gM6ZQQAggzh0+M0mQBaOsZM4dH7Ig=; Message-ID: <616402.36740.qm@web110401.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: 2HI0i9cVM1mN1zsJmz2Ngz0VB.dUaVvpZPNC5X0oYWFuL6zHWHbWuRMdOEq7brWgQB5zpiCz7.PACVaywyBQ8mzjo6l8_U7Nc8DGIesSkqFrPq1N3omV5Fpzu3SSy5NV.N.j960i0tXcr7yN17K2AUBspLRq0vsqZ.zxYTN_JU81ZqHQSrQPsxw98wf4T5NJW1eTog15sfvtfZPo_pSZqV8whdxUiHo2R6SVJ4_743Va2qD2_IPwazeIX4HLjPI5.AciajcESDBbu3HTeyUtXY4NSVvLNfzh0t9FOG11jtTLeCuyBcNRc8XEuFyNmBBOMrZqXx8- Received: from [24.13.139.142] by web110401.mail.gq1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 14 Sep 2009 17:26:02 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/7.0.14 YahooMailWebService/0.7.347.2 Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 17:26:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Nathaniel Krause Subject: [lojban] Re: Fwd: lojban and raising a child bi-lingual To: lojban-list@lojban.org In-Reply-To: <5715b9300909141355m1133483bl15727bdccd37f610@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-973964257-1252974362=:36740" X-archive-position: 16177 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: nathanielkrause@yahoo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list --0-973964257-1252974362=:36740 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable There was some talk a while back about a certain Lojbanist being in the mar= ket to purchase a small, uninhabited island and there found a utopian inten= tional community. Failing that, I'm afraid it would be difficult to get kid= s to talk to each other in Lojban. mu'o mi'e sen --- On Mon, 9/14/09, Luke Bergen wrote: From: Luke Bergen Subject: [lojban] Re: Fwd: lojban and raising a child bi-lingual To: lojban-list@lojban.org Date: Monday, September 14, 2009, 3:55 PM .i'e That'd be cool.=A0 Does anybody else have young kids/expect to have young k= ids in the near future?=A0 There is a part of me saying "I hope not, it'd b= e fun to be the first" and there is a second part of me saying "it'd be a h= ellofa lot easier if there were other kids their own age to talk to in the = language". =0A I guess only time will tell. On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 4:41 PM, Stela Selckiku wrote: =0AOn Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 11:23 PM, Luke Bergen wrot= e: =0A> I don't know lojban well enough yet to be 100% sure, but I believe you= 've =0A> just said (in a nutshell): =0A =0A =0ASorry, I don't know why I felt compelled to answer in Lojban, but it =0Adoes seem like you understood what I said. :) =0A =0AThere are a lot of challenges to raising someone to speak a new =0Alanguage, but it seems like d'Armond Speers had extra obstacles in the =0AKlingon of that time, which was inadequate to the task and too =0Aconservative to adjust quickly. =A0Today's Lojban is always inventing =0Anew words, for instance, and we could easily supply words for a new =0Aneed, while the Klingon community is very restrictive about when new =0Awords can enter their language. =0A =0AThe concept of "jbojbe", children who speak Lojban from birth, has =0Abeen discussed for a long time. =A0I think it's about time we started =0Adiscussing it just a little bit more seriously, and seeing what we =0Acould do as a community to help those who might want to teach Lojban =0Ato their children. =A0The state of the language and the community and of =0Atechnology are all I think heading towards a place where a jbojbe =0Acould have contact with and support from a lot of Lojbanists, such as =0Athrough recordings or video phone, and I think we should also start =0Aworking for instance on songs and videos and stories designed =0Aespecially for the jbojbe. =0A =0ALearning a language is difficult for anyone, even a child. =A0My hope is =0Athat the jbojbe will feel that teaching them Lojban is not just an =0Aexperiment, but that we have actually prepared a worthwhile place and =0Arole for them in our community. =0A =0Ami'e la stela selckiku =0Amu'o =0A =0A =0ATo unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.o= rg =0Awith the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or i= f =0Ayou're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help. =0A =0A =0A=0A=0A=0A --0-973964257-1252974362=:36740 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
There was some talk a while back about a cert= ain Lojbanist being in the market to purchase a small, uninhabited island a= nd there found a utopian intentional community. Failing that, I'm afraid it= would be difficult to get kids to talk to each other in Lojban.

mu'= o mi'e sen

--- On Mon, 9/14/09, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gm= ail.com> wrote:

From: Luke Berge= n <lukeabergen@gmail.com>
Subject: [lojban] Re: Fwd: lojban and ra= ising a child bi-lingual
To: lojban-list@lojban.org
Date: Monday, Sep= tember 14, 2009, 3:55 PM

.i'e

That'= d be cool.  Does anybody else have young kids/expect to have young kid= s in the near future?  There is a part of me saying "I hope not, it'd = be fun to be the first" and there is a second part of me saying "it'd be a hellof= a lot easier if there were other kids their own age to talk to in the langu= age".
=0A
I guess only time will tell.

On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 4:41 PM, Stela Selckiku <<= a rel=3D"nofollow" ymailto=3D"mailto:selckiku@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank" = href=3D"/mc/compose?to=3Dselckiku@gmail.com">selckiku@gmail.com> wrote:
=0A=
On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 11:23 PM, Luke Bergen<lukeabergen@gmail.com> w= rote:
=0A> I don't know lojban well enough yet to be 100% sure, but I= believe you've
=0A> just said (in a nutshell):
=0A
=0A
=0A<= /div>Sorry, I don't know why I felt compelled to answer in Lojban, but it=0Adoes seem like you understood what I said. :)
=0A
=0AThere are a= lot of challenges to raising someone to speak a new
=0Alanguage, but it= seems like d'Armond Speers had extra obstacles in the
=0AKlingon of tha= t time, which was inadequate to the task and too
=0Aconservative to adju= st quickly.  Today's Lojban is always inventing
=0Anew words, for i= nstance, and we could easily supply words for a new
=0Aneed, while the K= lingon community is very restrictive about when new
=0Awords can enter t= heir language.
=0A
=0AThe concept of "jbojbe", children who speak Loj= ban from birth, has
=0Abeen discussed for a long time.  I think it'= s about time we started
=0Adiscussing it just a little bit more seriousl= y, and seeing what we
=0Acould do as a community to help those who might= want to teach Lojban
=0Ato their children.  The state of the langu= age and the community and of
=0Atechnology are all I think heading towar= ds a place where a jbojbe
=0Acould have contact with and support from a = lot of Lojbanists, such as
=0Athrough recordings or video phone, and I t= hink we should also start
=0Aworking for instance on songs and videos an= d stories designed
=0Aespecially for the jbojbe.
=0A
=0ALearning a= language is difficult for anyone, even a child.  My hope is
=0Atha= t the jbojbe will feel that teaching them Lojban is not just an
=0Aexper= iment, but that we have actually prepared a worthwhile place and
=0Arole= for them in our community.
=0A

=0A= mi'e la stela selckiku
=0Amu'o
=0A
=0A
=0ATo unsubscribe from t= his list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org
=0Awith the subject= unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
=0Ayou're = really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.
=0A
=0A
=

=0A

=0A=0A --0-973964257-1252974362=:36740-- To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.