From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Sun Oct 18 08:19:40 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Sun, 18 Oct 2009 08:19:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MzXXo-0003iN-3p for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Sun, 18 Oct 2009 08:19:40 -0700 Received: from mail-yx0-f202.google.com ([209.85.210.202]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MzXXj-0003hG-6E for lojban-list@lojban.org; Sun, 18 Oct 2009 08:19:39 -0700 Received: by yxe40 with SMTP id 40so3303179yxe.28 for ; Sun, 18 Oct 2009 08:19:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:date:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type; bh=QXNzQh9AreisMVMHoqGIkvTbG1flXXCYZES6bOs0JZo=; b=xMoHTlYdkaueHOalWgyoMp0CmmfNL+c4Nd6YN9qfliHpRG+6bP/JbMpv6MtkaeFNbK Un3/OVGR1RxsOfp9NFxZ4r5QzA83Hdg6VqHpAGKExGui2eY6p3YhD8foAkjUlKR4agEo ryuLsW4RHAgXfdGes/DR35frl2x0gA7gvuc/A= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=xw+X2Vc3z+TjiZHlYcjluBrYdYeil09banuegZlgMQIN1kN/WoL6ccT0T5S8koZrGv 3fKsLPIBhPlfJkMJHNIEi1Fj4RIN5xGyOSKP1Zb7MrXpFWRgpNejXG9dg3dCWJMbkBQX Qf+GNTeL11OH5yTtXRJhtO61/2ABVbbsE0nGA= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.150.248.4 with SMTP id v4mr6237922ybh.184.1255879168805; Sun, 18 Oct 2009 08:19:28 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 11:19:28 -0400 Message-ID: <5715b9300910180819y60f699f9r779ac16bac8afc23@mail.gmail.com> Subject: [lojban] Re: [jbovlaste] Re: What would happen if xu and ko were put together? (Now in the right list!) From: Luke Bergen To: lojban-list@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd6e5b0bccbdc047637271b X-archive-position: 16354 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list --000e0cd6e5b0bccbdc047637271b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I'm quite the newbie (comparatively speaking), but it seems to me like if something is grammatical in lojban, it should also be "valid". Perhaps confusing as hell to interpret, but it should be legitimate. On Sun, Oct 18, 2009 at 3:21 AM, John Cowan wrote: > Lindar Greenwood scripsit: > > > I'm not saying that either is dominant, and I'm actually fiercely stating > > the opposite. Both are equally dominant in the sentence, and should be > > read at the same time because the order in which they are read is > > irrelevant. It's not "Tell me where you are going." it's "Go. Where?" > > Okay, that eliminates the priority question: "ko klama ma" is simply > "ko klama zo'e .ije do klama ma". So that's a *third* possible > interpretation. Lojban is supposed to be the language where you may not > know what someone meant, but you always know what they said. But with > sentences like this, I have no clue what they said. Recapping: > > "Where are you going? Go there." (no dominance) > > "Tell me where you are going and go there." (command dominates) > > "Where are you going, and are you obeying my order to go there." > (question dominates) > > -- > John Cowan cowan@ccil.org http://ccil.org/~cowan > It's the old, old story. Droid meets droid. Droid becomes chameleon. > Droid loses chameleon, chameleon becomes blob, droid gets blob back > again. It's a classic tale. --Kryten, Red Dwarf > > > > --000e0cd6e5b0bccbdc047637271b Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm quite the newbie (comparatively speaking), but it seems to me like = if something is grammatical in lojban, it should also be "valid".= =A0 Perhaps confusing as hell to interpret, but it should be legitimate.=A0=

On Sun, Oct 18, 2009 at 3:21 AM, John Cowan = <cowan@ccil.org&= gt; wrote:
Lindar Greenwood scripsit:

> I'm not saying that either is dominant, and I'm actually fierc= ely stating
> the opposite. Both are equally dominant in the sentence, and should be=
> read at the same time because the order in which they are read is
> irrelevant. It's not "Tell me where you are going." it&#= 39;s "Go. Where?"

Okay, that eliminates the priority question: "ko klama ma" = is simply
"ko klama zo'e .ije do klama ma". =A0So that's a *third* = possible
interpretation. =A0Lojban is supposed to be the language where you may not<= br> know what someone meant, but you always know what they said. =A0But with sentences like this, I have no clue what they said. =A0Recapping:

"Where are you going? =A0Go there." =A0(no dominance)

"Tell me where you are going and go there." =A0(command dominates= )

"Where are you going, and are you obeying my order to go there."<= br> (question dominates)

--
John Cowan =A0cowan@ccil.org =A0 http://ccil.org/~cowan
It's the old, old story. =A0Droid meets droid. =A0Droid becomes chamele= on.
Droid loses chameleon, chameleon becomes blob, droid gets blob back
again. =A0It's a classic tale. =A0--Kryten, Red Dwarf




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