From lukeabergen@gmail.com Thu Dec 03 15:40:38 2009 Received: from mail-gx0-f224.google.com ([209.85.217.224]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NGLHk-0004zZ-AD for lojban-list@lojban.org; Thu, 03 Dec 2009 15:40:38 -0800 Received: by gxk24 with SMTP id 24so1126777gxk.6 for ; Thu, 03 Dec 2009 15:40:26 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=LbMgV3LDzextl5TjHY31NSSEtAb6hZtNkb/JON9Lc1U=; b=UC5pKnU4HBS+CWU4QH/Xlkh+c4+iyXq/W8r+YIuKFFzvOVmmwL3+8jSKCwDXMjNBc5 A99z68pYuT3Y9gtFRxl9Rbnmb9Zi5waL7fNTxWMFSWcPdj79w9xyGmkAEJRl5DNIvxPu DcqPb9BfIWPHPZ6/iULlLRGhQ1in8c2QNFCts= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=ZYDkxyIpJZuBnAXPogkvy/i1H6R+FX5rRKCY+ZcLIjPazr1D+duqJI8OL+3zwooyvA Ajt2UwkKv9t0N/0WrrX9DzGyqSW/Vq2JyIoJz6LCJrkGZaDCPZmYdkQF4u4U3q8iY4pK rqiwVN+HkNFbFqJ5mk8moZtYcLA5vEkUkf6oo= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.150.88.7 with SMTP id l7mr4122522ybb.88.1259883623908; Thu, 03 Dec 2009 15:40:23 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <925d17560912031513q7bbc1d1bu89ddeb8c21f48172@mail.gmail.com> References: <925d17560912031025v756adb41x909ab4dc11f28fe@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560912031351u371119c8nce6329be6fd90728@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560912031513q7bbc1d1bu89ddeb8c21f48172@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 18:40:23 -0500 Message-ID: <5715b9300912031540i41f36591mb91b3384f7ae11d7@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: what's a du'u? From: Luke Bergen To: lojban-list@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd5f144dc87260479db834f --000e0cd5f144dc87260479db834f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >> What other grammar words do we have? > lerfu, slaka, rafsi, gadri, tanru, valsi, jufra jufra in particular has always seemed kind of weird to me. Everywhere through the red book we see things like {bridi}, but then all of a sudden there's this concept of a "sentence" which as far as I know has no official definition. Or am I wrong about that? 2009/12/3 Jorge Llamb=EDas > On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 7:27 PM, Daniel Brockman > wrote: > > > > Assuming that we do want separate terms, though, and that we want > > {bridi} to be about the predication rather than the text, --- do you > > have any thoughts or opinions about how we could, would, or should > > refer to the parts of speech? I sketched up a kind of ad-hoc system > > based on -pau --- any comments on that? > > "Parts of speech" are single words, right? Those are all the selma'o > plus the honorary selma'o BRIVLA and CMEVLA. > > I prefer to think of things like sumti, selbri, bridi, relative > clause, prenex, etc as structures in themselves rather than as parts > of something else, so maybe "stura" rather than "pagbu". I guess the > technical term is "phrase". > > > > Hmm, {sumti} has a very analoguous problem. The gimste says (even > > more explicitly than in the case of {bridi}) that sumti1 and sumti2 > > are both text. > > Which doesn't make a lot of sense. If "lo mlatu" is a sumti, what are > its selsumti and its tersumti? > > > Would you prefer sumti1 to be lo cmima be bridi3 and > > sumti2 to be bridi2? I would, I think (for symmetry with {bridi}, if > > nothing else). > > Right. > > > On the other hand, the word words --- like {gismu}, {cmavo}, {lujvo}, > > etc. --- don't really have this problem. At least not to this severe > > degree. > > I don't really know what to make of the x3 of gismu and lujvo, or the > x4 of lujvo. > > > What other grammar words do we have? > > lerfu, slaka, rafsi, gadri, tanru, valsi, jufra > > There may be some more I'm forgetting. > > mu'o mi'e xorxes > > > To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.or= g > with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if > you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help. > > --000e0cd5f144dc87260479db834f Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >> What other grammar words do we have?

> lerfu, slaka, rafsi, gadri, tanru, valsi, jufra

jufra in partic= ular has always seemed kind of weird to me.=A0 Everywhere through the red b= ook we see things like {bridi}, but then all of a sudden there's this c= oncept of a "sentence" which as far as I know has no official def= inition.=A0 Or am I wrong about that?

2009/12/3 Jorge Llamb=EDas <jjllambias@gmail.com>
On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 7:27 PM, Daniel Brockman <dbrockman@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Assuming that we do want separate terms, though, and that we want
> {bridi} to be about the predication rather than the text, --- do you > have any thoughts or opinions about how we could, would, or should
> refer to the parts of speech? =A0I sketched up a kind of ad-hoc system=
> based on -pau --- any comments on that?

"Parts of speech" are single words, right? Those are all th= e selma'o
plus the honorary selma'o BRIVLA and CMEVLA.

I prefer to think of things like sumti, selbri, bridi, relative
clause, prenex, etc as structures in themselves rather than as parts
of something else, so maybe "stura" rather than "pagbu"= . I guess the
technical term is "phrase".


> Hmm, {sumti} has a very analoguous problem. =A0The gimste says (even > more explicitly than in the case of {bridi}) that sumti1 and sumti2 > are both text.

Which doesn't make a lot of sense. If "lo mlatu" is a s= umti, what are
its selsumti and its tersumti?

>=A0Would you prefer sumti1 to be lo cmima be bridi3 and
> sumti2 to be bridi2? =A0I would, I think (for symmetry with {bridi}, i= f
> nothing else).

Right.

> On the other hand, the word words --- like {gismu}, {cmavo}, {lujvo},<= br> > etc. --- don't really have this problem. =A0At least not to this s= evere
> degree.

I don't really know what to make of the x3 of gismu and lujvo, or= the
x4 of lujvo.

> What other grammar words do we have?

lerfu, slaka, rafsi, gadri, tanru, valsi, jufra

There may be some more I'm forgetting.

mu'o mi'e xorxes


To unsubscribe from this list, send= mail to lojban-list-requ= est@lojban.org
with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.


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