From totus@rogers.com Fri Dec 04 08:21:53 2009 Received: from n7b.bullet.mail.ac4.yahoo.com ([76.13.13.77]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NGaui-00081B-Qh for lojban-list@lojban.org; Fri, 04 Dec 2009 08:21:53 -0800 Received: from [76.13.13.25] by n7.bullet.mail.ac4.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Dec 2009 16:21:41 -0000 Received: from [68.142.237.89] by t4.bullet.mail.ac4.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Dec 2009 16:21:41 -0000 Received: from [66.196.114.73] by t5.bullet.re3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Dec 2009 16:21:41 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp302.mail.re3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Dec 2009 16:21:41 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 354836.32758.bm@omp302.mail.re3.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 58903 invoked by uid 60001); 4 Dec 2009 16:21:41 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=rogers.com; s=s1024; t=1259943701; bh=h+syDSgwG6I3FHB92gE/YkL5ArMQtFr41O4eVyDpS5c=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=OW4JizfZPpun6lXRDOtRXRba3QToJWIwpPDtzCBLGL/KBi8vtkuPjbgJrdsKOZBdiqZRvQc4Cc8wFRaSqXKbntQ7d5CIMyTqVA2tXIQonLtEcOg9BZRsxn2DmLn4SOitBSFuxzzv+tCd1H9FixqAXYTF58i0ZlSbdD0cLxr06yM= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=rogers.com; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=hIksorotS8pDeOVT+aORGjv0rBHulUU9iFydbKxSg04RfF3dcRj3oQjR+fSLGV5KX2JvIHncPdqSNLxkGUtlXGtH1Vr4lXY0E3637MDtdd9UrKI+XVEZoEh0sGm9H4D+s2cIIWtIIfe6q31ewfD+9j2A1+EsvPehqg0h+blDYsQ=; Message-ID: <231765.58546.qm@web88002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: .fjy1QIVM1n0Y4mDQqj5EBGEVkdLX7X5G.kd7R0ASGz.AGWuEF8RWObt_CtyNQcfmxnLyQYZtFJsZnNYiAEjmiIzYdDASNtrQDR20nppnPmFz6.abr3XloPfwpTjR9NaK8ZiDtv4c8ESvw_yJhbeshY.NPWkH3YcinYwDf0Oyas0ulNEcbkc2ZYZaf3HU.2tFk5KfxF7TaFs8svQWk5XEmPvz__HEceJYkQarUH_nrEClDMhZDyQZBDkKsNJxoKmZfNY7Yt9uyOPleX8N6BFpep2TFqDBIPhR535xD0V4T8h71Itw286dWkT Received: from [99.229.170.85] by web88002.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 04 Dec 2009 08:21:41 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/240.3 YahooMailWebService/0.8.100.260964 References: <348584.67527.qm@web88004.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <925d17560912021520q72a3b6c5mba2622589e233049@mail.gmail.com> <128928.6634.qm@web88006.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <925d17560912040709s28835ec9uf8817b491ce3b9c1@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 08:21:41 -0800 (PST) From: "A. PIEKARSKI" Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: [jbovlaste] malranxi To: lojban-list@lojban.org In-Reply-To: <925d17560912040709s28835ec9uf8817b491ce3b9c1@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0A> From: Jorge Llamb=EDas =0A> To: lojban-list@lojban.org=0A> Sent: Fri, December 4, 20= 09 10:09:57 AM=0A> Subject: [lojban] Re: [jbovlaste] malranxi=0A> =0A> On F= ri, Dec 4, 2009 at 11:40 AM, A. PIEKARSKI wrote:=0A> >=0A> >> so I suggest = "raxsku"=0A> >> "x1 says x2 to x3 via medium x4, which is ironic/contrary t= o=0A> >> expectation (that x1 would say what they really mean, the usual=0A= > >> expectation when someone says something)=0A> >>=0A> >> I'm not sure wh= at the x3 aspect of ranxi would be in this case.=0A> >>=0A> > Is this how y= ou would write it?=0A> >=0A> > {c1 cusku c2 c3 c4 .ijebo lonu go'i cu ranxi= lonu so'eda tersmu le go'e}=0A> > {c1 raxsku c2 c3 c4}=0A> =0A> What's "le= go'e"?=0A=0AWell, both {go'i} and {go'e} were meant to refer to {c1 cusku = c2 c3 c4 }.=0A=0A> =0A> I would say:=0A> =0A> ko'a cusku ko'e ko'i ko'o .ij= e la'e di'u ranxi lo nu na cusku lo to'e=0A> se smuni be lo se jinvi=0A> = =0A> As for the x3 of "ranxi", I now think that what characterizes this=0A>= type of irony has to be something like "intentional", or "intentional=0A> = for effect", as opposed to ironic situations that just happen to be=0A> iro= nic unintentionally.=0A> =0ACould be.=A0 But in any case it gets dropped in= the formulation of the lujvo.=0A=0Atotus