From lukeabergen@gmail.com Fri Dec 18 14:11:25 2009 Received: from mail-gx0-f224.google.com ([209.85.217.224]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NLl2c-0005qR-5s for lojban-list@lojban.org; Fri, 18 Dec 2009 14:11:25 -0800 Received: by gxk24 with SMTP id 24so1938502gxk.6 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 2009 14:11:12 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=DKUiDH57Re9xaoigqKOQ/JlzdbHanjtF0JATBtN92FA=; b=L7nfRJI5XFhr3ZEF7fQYwNsVqOWQM0nODMCO3yAVlal58oO9sgaCaY+AKRar8Q1Jg4 xfnJVqpKVvJBY11OtEBGfjWFcS/RYhn3XK4CNBVYzNaq5tN0SBQDiMaszSizyG4tddxd TYI7JhpLy03BpUMakTVWGWtfiry4HMl1uNA8k= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=R7nzMRlpHfAh+oQYhhK94K1tm2ILA4ssfc8qKYWk3mlBXK5Nau3eyEvRtdn5ggyioE jAIMvhsVs1G04a/5QY5JFsbTfJ98fyrSeE6SDxu04b+XE7HOr6vaYitHil3T7ZrT+sZp TpYxrBNG+IdFPgC4rV9RiZgoIzwvA2TjDgRPQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.151.18.40 with SMTP id v40mr7460115ybi.11.1261173828537; Fri, 18 Dec 2009 14:03:48 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <925d17560912181357y2ba48da3rf9190d51c3ed9690@mail.gmail.com> References: <8a20e9f70912181024t29e56190u762c85c8373e0c6a@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560912181211o485199adj246be26f7ce5e368@mail.gmail.com> <8a20e9f70912181227j40b5b65didcef9b757ce87df0@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560912181357y2ba48da3rf9190d51c3ed9690@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 17:03:48 -0500 Message-ID: <5715b9300912181403w564ec927xa5eef2755878dcb4@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: The New Method From: Luke Bergen To: lojban-list@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cdf19f40ccd41047b07ea68 --000e0cdf19f40ccd41047b07ea68 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable What do you mean "we don't need it"? How else would you say {mi klama be l= o zarci be'o djica fi lo nu cpacu lo nanba}? Here is a selbri which is a tanru made up of two gismu each of which need stuff put into their x2 place= . How can that be done without {be}? 2009/12/18 Jorge Llamb=EDas > On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 5:27 PM, Jameson Orndorff > wrote: > > Also a side note - I've heard that Wave works better in > > (surprise surprise) Google Chrome, if you can try that. > > I am using Chrome actually, and I didn't notice any problems with > response times that others talk about for other browsers, but the way > the arrows work is the same ugly in Chrome. > > > > In > > practice, this has pretty much been a non issue - negation and tags > > are taught later, and they are described as being on the outside of > > the "whole selbri" if you can kinda catch my drift. I wasn't able to > > completely describe my style in the original post. I assure you I'm > > doing the best to address the issue. > > OK. Arguments can be made both ways as to what is better. Since you > can say things like "lo ca klama", if "ca" is not part of the selbri > you have to specify that it's not just a selbri that can be converted > into a sumti with "lo", but a selbri plus its tag. > > I don't expect this to be much of a problem in informal teaching, but > when you write it down more formally you have to consider that it may > end up being used as a reference work in the future, so it's better to > keep things as consistent as possible. > > > > I really haven't had a problem justifying its existence - though I do > > admit I have to rely on the tried and true "Just accept that it's > > there" argument to get it into people's heads. > > In the wave there is a comment: > > I don=92t see why we need the {be} yet > > which is unanswered. When I tried to think of an answer, I realized > that in fact we *don't* need it, except to make "ku" more elidable. > > mu'o mi'e xorxes > > > To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.or= g > with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if > you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help. > > --000e0cdf19f40ccd41047b07ea68 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable What do you mean "we don't need it"? =A0How else would you sa= y {mi klama be lo zarci be'o djica fi lo nu cpacu lo nanba}? =A0Here is= a selbri which is a tanru made up of two gismu each of which need stuff pu= t into their x2 place. =A0How can that be done without {be}?

2009/12/18 Jorge Llamb=EDas <jjllambias@gmail.com><= /span>
On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 5:27 PM, Jameson Orndorff <jtorndorff@gmail.com> wrote: > Also a side note - I've heard that Wave works better in
> (surprise surprise) Google Chrome, if you can try that.

I am using Chrome actually, and I didn't notice any problems with=
response times that others talk about for other browsers, but the way
the arrows work is the same ugly in Chrome.


> =A0In
> practice, this has pretty much been a non issue - negation and tags > are taught later, and they are described as being on the outside of > the "whole selbri" if you can kinda catch my drift. I wasn&#= 39;t able to
> completely describe my style in the original post. I assure you I'= m
> doing the best to address the issue.

OK. =A0Arguments can be made both ways as to what is better. Since yo= u
can say things like "lo ca klama", if "ca" is not part = of the selbri
you have to specify that it's not just a selbri that can be converted into a sumti with "lo", but a selbri plus its tag.

I don't expect this to be much of a problem in informal teaching, but when you write it down more formally you have to consider that it may
end up being used as a reference work in the future, so it's better to<= br> keep things as consistent as possible.


> I really haven't had a problem justifying its existence - though I= do
> admit I have to rely on the tried and true "Just accept that it&#= 39;s
> there" argument to get it into people's heads.

In the wave there is a comment:

<Suprano> I don=92t see why we need the {be} yet

which is unanswered. When I tried to think of an answer, I realized
that in fact we *don't* need it, except to make "ku" more eli= dable.

mu'o mi'e xorxes


To unsubscribe from this list, send= mail to lojban-list-requ= est@lojban.org
with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.


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