From get.oren@gmail.com Fri Dec 18 19:06:03 2009 Received: from mail-px0-f198.google.com ([209.85.216.198]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NLpdm-0003lP-3g for lojban-list@lojban.org; Fri, 18 Dec 2009 19:06:02 -0800 Received: by pxi36 with SMTP id 36so2468286pxi.26 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 2009 19:05:50 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:content-type; bh=rFR1h3Gg8thW7StuOpaFw1QB88NaIPCqhAbK/OKjZnc=; b=of33tsbWOiNod3sBJ17+uNYhcm/CDwEfiOS+1uVaxPjMN+XogoE/FcJjI9N8khP6jR VsfMFEfXrk6lf5bBmc5rQ4Eu0r1B+UwMvDpIouPdobPabgsqnRHkE8QhIyHriKQqQx3c gMKkqp6GNrECy5sDR/yQqBGO0SN/terWUuPJY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type; b=I7GgdSm/wYA8WM0WGx6+I2k2/8oMTfA3179QU8b9McbwTtPcFNtZhkX9Iswexdfcot fpQGBg0myjZ+cy/10BeyC051GyMtQ2QzlfbPUzYZ4ypdgWqExeL/XDw0JVV2zc5UfKMZ CrKARPr2y4du05v1RXZYjKWd4TcTmJq5chANg= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.142.119.3 with SMTP id r3mr457494wfc.293.1261191950114; Fri, 18 Dec 2009 19:05:50 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <27513e550912181900m580ed99fj505d0cb1626fab27@mail.gmail.com> References: <8a20e9f70912181024t29e56190u762c85c8373e0c6a@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560912181211o485199adj246be26f7ce5e368@mail.gmail.com> <8a20e9f70912181227j40b5b65didcef9b757ce87df0@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560912181357y2ba48da3rf9190d51c3ed9690@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560912181518i133ea386s336a99cbc23fbf6a@mail.gmail.com> <8a20e9f70912181616q662f6f1fv106a73480a82fb4c@mail.gmail.com> <27513e550912181900m580ed99fj505d0cb1626fab27@mail.gmail.com> From: Oren Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 11:05:30 +0800 Message-ID: <27513e550912181905o724e7122o72de9317119cc71b@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: The New Method To: lojban-list@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636e0b6b92e1ed7047b0c22d5 --001636e0b6b92e1ed7047b0c22d5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 edit: Oops! The lesson-point title I actually used in my example was "Make a sentence: fill in some sumti," not "what's an attitudinal?" Though that would be a good lesson point too. mu'o mi'e .ku'us On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 11:00, Oren wrote: > Interested in the site layout as well, although all I see is this brief set > of specs: > > zoi > > > As for the web-based lessons, I had the idea of writing out lessons in this > form (teaching more or less the full grammar in its basics) with one pass > and branding it "Level 1". "Level 2" will then be available to the user as a > direct overlay on the existing material. That is to say, that by checking a > box on the website or something, they can cause new text to mix in with the > existing lessons (probably of a different color). So the introduction > chapter will have the same Level 1 text, but will also expand upon those > ideas and possibly introduce more terminology for level 2. The {lo} / {la} > chapter can expand to detail {le} and the other use of {la} as well as inner > / outer quantifiers in level 2. The NU chapter can explain some of the finer > points of NU and some of the other ones, {ni}, {ka}, {se du'u} vs. {du'u}, > etc. Level 3 will just be another overlay with the absolute full detail of > the language. > > li'u > > ...I don't really see Google Wave as the solution for this, even with the > supposed freedom of 'inviting bots' into waves. I know it's 'cutting edge' > but it's also exclusive (you still need to be invited), and not terribly > accessible (even tech-savvy people find it tricky to navigate, and not all > lojban students will be tech-savvy!) > > I've actually chewed on the idea of a lojban-learning website for a while > now, basically using the same premise as your above specifications; that > there would be 'individualized' lessons of various difficulty that drew from > lessons that users had already studied. The way I envisioned this was some > Drupal-ish content-driven site like this: > > 1) content type: vocab word (mostly gismu) > --- contains formal definition > --- contains moderator-added notes for newbs > > mu'a > xamgu > x1 (object/event) is good/beneficial/nice/[acceptable] for x2 by standard > x3 > this means "good," but really, you should use a more descriptive word, > cmon! > > 2) content type: examples (used in lessons) > --- contains sentence > --- contains gloss > --- contains translation > --- contains note > > mu'a > mi xamgu > 'I' 'good/beneficial' > I'm beneficial > Note: this doesn't mean "I'm doing well!" > > 3) content type: grammar point (mostly cmavo) > --- links to any dependent words (i.e. lo... ku would link to lo and ku) > --- grammar visualization (text) > --- grammar gloss > --- grammar note > --- links to any number of example sentences to demonstrate usage > > mu'a > link1: lo > link2: ku > {lo ... ku} > " ...(noun)... " > This means some real instance of something. > Note: this doesn't mean necessarily plural. > ex: (links to example sentence, content type 2) > > 4) content type: lesson point > --- title (i.e. "Make a sentence: fill in some sumti.") > --- intro > --- link to grammar point > --- explanation > > mu'a > intro: "Well, you know there's place structure, but how do you fill in > those places? We need to tag the sumti with some lo's and ku's! Right on!" > link: grammar point, content type 3 > explanation: "We need these to make sure we know where arguments begin and > end. Otherwise we'd just have run-on tanru." > > 5) content type: lesson template > --- title (something like "the basics: you, me, and bridi") > --- segways 1...n > --- lesson points 1...n > > This last content type would be optional in my book, but would allow for > long, structured lesson design like what's going on on the wave. I think > these are great references and certainly some people prefer this type of > study, so they're good to keep. But I also think that if a user has gone > through a set of 'lesson points' they could be presented with a list of > lesson titles (like the above "What's an attitudinal?") that are > automatically selected by the amount of 'new' material in the lesson. Each > lesson point would be treated like a blog entry, and so people could see the > latest updates, browse by title etc, but also have the option of doing > sequential 'chapters.' > > I hope that was clear... welcome feedback! > > mu'o mi'e .ku'us > > > On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 09:44, Matt Arnold wrote: > >> On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 7:16 PM, Jameson Orndorff >> wrote: >> > Thanks everyone for your feedback on the structure! Anyone have any >> > comments about the layout idea I had for the website? >> >> Sorry, can you point me to that? -Eppcott >> >> >> To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to >> lojban-list-request@lojban.org >> with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if >> you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help. >> >> > --001636e0b6b92e1ed7047b0c22d5 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
edit: Oops! The lesson-point title I actually used in my e= xample was "Make a sentence: fill in some sumti," not "what&= #39;s an attitudinal?" Though that would be a good lesson point too.
mu'o mi'e .ku'us

On Sat, = Dec 19, 2009 at 11:00, Oren <get.oren@gmail.com> wrote:
Interested in the site layout as well, although all I see = is this brief set of specs:

zoi


As for the = web-based lessons, I had the idea of writing out lessons in this form (teaching more or less the full grammar in its basics) with one pass and branding it "Level 1". "Level 2" will= then be available to the user as a direct overlay on the existing material. That is to say, that by checking a box on the website or something, they can cause new text to mix in with the existing lessons (probably of a different color). So the introduction chapter will have the same Level 1 text, but will also expand upon those ideas and possibly introduce more terminology for level 2. The {lo} / {la} chapter can expand to detail {le} and the other use of {la} as well as inner / outer quantifiers in level 2. The NU chapter can explain some of the finer points of NU and some of the other ones, {ni}, {ka}, {se du'u} vs. {du'u}, etc. Level 3 will just be another overlay with the absolute full detail of the language.

li'u

...I don't re= ally see Google Wave as the solution for this, even with the supposed freed= om of 'inviting bots' into waves. I know it's 'cutting edge= ' but it's also exclusive (you still need to be invited), and not t= erribly accessible (even tech-savvy people find it tricky to navigate, and = not all lojban students will be tech-savvy!)

I've actually chewed on the idea of a lojban-learning website for a= while now, basically using the same premise as your above specifications; = that there would be 'individualized' lessons of various difficulty = that drew from lessons that users had already studied. The way I envisioned= this was some Drupal-ish content-driven site like this:

1) content type: vocab word (mostly gismu)
--- contains formal defin= ition
--- contains moderator-added notes for newbs

mu'a
xa= mgu
x1 (object/event) is good/beneficial/nice/[acceptable] for x2 by sta= ndard x3
this means "good," but really, you should use a more descriptive = word, cmon!

2) content type: examples (used in lessons)
--- conta= ins sentence
--- contains gloss
--- contains translation
--- conta= ins note

mu'a
mi xamgu
'I' 'good/beneficial'
I'= m beneficial
Note: this doesn't mean "I'm doing well!"=

3) content type: grammar point (mostly cmavo)
--- links to any dependent words (i.e. lo... ku would link to lo and ku)--- grammar visualization (text)
--- grammar gloss
--- grammar note<= br> --- links to any number of example sentences to demonstrate usage

mu= 'a
link1: lo
link2: ku
{lo ... ku}
"<some> ...(n= oun)... <end-some>"
This means some real instance of somethin= g.
Note: this doesn't mean necessarily plural.
ex: (links to example se= ntence, content type 2)

4) content type: lesson point
--- title (= i.e. "Make a sentence: fill in some sumti.")
--- intro
--- link to grammar point
--- explanation

mu'a
intro: &quo= t;Well, you know there's place structure, but how do you fill in those = places? We need to tag the sumti with some lo's and ku's! Right on!= "
link: grammar point, content type 3
explanation: "We need these to = make sure we know where arguments begin and end. Otherwise we'd just ha= ve run-on tanru."

5) content type: lesson template
--- title= (something like "the basics: you, me, and bridi")
--- segways 1...n
--- lesson points 1...n

This last content type = would be optional in my book, but would allow for long, structured lesson d= esign like what's going on on the wave. I think these are great referen= ces and certainly some people prefer this type of study, so they're goo= d to keep. But I also think that if a user has gone through a set of 'l= esson points' they could be presented with a list of lesson titles (lik= e the above "What's an attitudinal?") that are automatically = selected by the amount of 'new' material in the lesson. Each lesson= point would be treated like a blog entry, and so people could see the late= st updates, browse by title etc, but also have the option of doing sequenti= al 'chapters.'

I hope that was clear... welcome feedback!

mu'o mi'e .ku= 'us


On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 09:44, Matt Arnold <matt.mattarn@gmail.com= > wrote:
On Fri, Dec = 18, 2009 at 7:16 PM, Jameson Orndorff <jtorndorff@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks everyone for your feedback on the structure! Anyone have any > comments about the layout idea I had for the website?

Sorry, can you point me to that? -Eppcott


To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org
with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.



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