From kali9putra@yahoo.com Mon Jan 11 11:32:51 2010 Received: from web81303.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.199.119]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NUQ0G-0000qK-GM for lojban-list@lojban.org; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 11:32:51 -0800 Received: (qmail 69659 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Jan 2010 19:32:33 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s1024; t=1263238353; bh=oP2PkKhMJO0Of+cFlUQV4Fe0qRkEf79Bh2NQVszPN7c=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=Q9mOvfZsNB7RzYKJLATIn4s9295Xw7gcO8fuNUZV1YZpZqBK3PbX3blGoowcBXDrgFXrQXbtRn754fLYU4/R3fOGxILD/DmzQDMNQB/Nng9+YTUJ2r+7oW0XIf13JSN+wMSu0gEggROIuuTBNMNxBH6PxqgptqyoiufMEZFcy/I= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=Zjw5oNMPxjEAMd201y4nJrfgxylcxYZotlrTmMU1Jn7MCV2DQBNbsb4Kj2pZWxQWN/JKZ49R3D1SdiyYx6fnAmw+qyZ4GEPRx4o5epH6KHFhdDZkEW52ycm/ei/XfQdFCGrApVkwKTkC+H5hXY1CafEGF82eH1RHyXz4mfeCN0E=; Message-ID: <596159.69064.qm@web81303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: dZxtQ2YVM1l_RL3O6.QHcr1_qtLBXBNVTeZqf.0FAF3Or6M44PxxcUfenc_0nPfwMFkbQ_3_yQatYrlhYmD4MZ5QgnV4y3EFmZKJyit9mjOomdTgkCPvtZrKWwp_cW3iwO.q32meVinVNTKHlyavjRHlRV3Xwm2WxDkLvtkJjQHTxxfjMbTTtIR1WLQ3Gx1gD5PAD5aCSiHpiVmrGYBYwk7q8qcPgbUoIhnnfAqsNNUnMCQDZ32NnX2cFX2t.9SfhO6Wpg4fvNFtPbzax5h0tIwUBf2OPRWrt6McGh6jhPApzXW_vgbdrS7g9PTqPcFBqXRyOXT59sA1pjPfDHDuidwx5n5Vi9evNsfVVFRpftl4KSuhILkLibNY2aguyZA2T7tM7vHmeJeIDE6AUE5XpdVVK38arlFq_loVXMszY8jKIm0TJio5LX_t8zgprgiYXnESeOCN6ncrCA-- Received: from [71.81.141.59] by web81303.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 11:32:33 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/240.3 YahooMailWebService/0.8.100.260964 References: <20100111191131.GF7910@digitalkingdom.org> <5715b9301001111119pc7e5edcm571f7ee31a0aee77@mail.gmail.com> <5715b9301001111121p1a0694a5vcf3da0f6e7f2566d@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 11:32:33 -0800 (PST) From: John E Clifford Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Random fu'ivla formation thought. To: lojban-list@lojban.org In-Reply-To: <5715b9301001111121p1a0694a5vcf3da0f6e7f2566d@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1158691674-1263238353=:69064" --0-1158691674-1263238353=:69064 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Recall that from the early days, i.e., Loglan, the ideal was always a vivid metaphor, not a detailed description. Failing that, the least you can do is drop out all the generic stuff from the description and just get to the peculiar bits. Of course, Japanese and Russian masters of this sort of thing would go on to cutting back on even these bits, but that makes for unreadable compounds -- not that readable is always that much help. Actually, and this is back to deja vu, purely functional derivatives were once the norm, with analyzable ones and afterthought. You learned them almost like gismu (indeed, many of them were in gismu form) with the derivation (obscure, perhaps) being an aid (actually better than the language base for gismus). ________________________________ From: Luke Bergen To: lojban-list@lojban.org Sent: Mon, January 11, 2010 1:21:16 PM Subject: [lojban] Re: Random fu'ivla formation thought. Sorry, I meant to add an actual comment in addition to my snarky remark but accidentally hit send. I love this idea. One of the things about lojban that kind of bugs me is how quickly and easily words can get absurdly long. On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 2:19 PM, Luke Bergen wrote: >Is there a lojban equivalent for "deja vu"? > > > >On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 2:11 PM, Robin Lee Powell wrote: > >It seems to me that we should make fu'ivla, at least sometimes, the >>>>way English does: by contracting annoyingly long compound words. >> >>>>Example: "cellphone", which is its own word short for "cellular >>>>telephone" (at least), which are themselves compounds if I'm not >>>>mistaken. It seems to me that we could do something similar, by >>>>creating the crazy-long jvajvo word and then, if it's popular, >>>>ripping parts out in such a way as to create a *fu'ivla* rather than >>>>a less-jva-jvo >> >>>>Just a thought. >> >>>>-Robin >> >> >>>>-- >>>>They say: "The first AIs will be built by the military as weapons." >>>>And I'm thinking: "Does it even occur to you to try for something >>>>other than the default outcome?" See http://shrunklink.com/cdiz >>http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/ *** http://www.lojban.org/ >> >> >>>>To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org >>>>with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if >>>>you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help. >> >> > --0-1158691674-1263238353=:69064 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Recall that from the early days, i.e., Loglan, the ideal was always a vivid metaphor, not a detailed description. Failing that, the least you can do is drop out all the generic stuff from the description and just get to the peculiar bits. Of course, Japanese and Russian masters of this sort of thing would go on to cutting back on even these bits, but that makes for unreadable compounds -- not that readable is always that much help.  Actually, and this is back to deja vu, purely functional derivatives were once the norm, with analyzable ones and afterthought.  You learned them almost like gismu (indeed, many of them were in gismu form) with the derivation (obscure, perhaps) being an aid (actually better than the language base for gismus).

From: Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com>
To: lojban-list@lojban.org
Sent: Mon, January 11, 2010 1:21:16 PM
Subject: [lojban] Re: Random fu'ivla formation thought.

Sorry, I meant to add an actual comment in addition to my snarky remark but accidentally hit send.  I love this idea.  One of the things about lojban that kind of bugs me is how quickly and easily words can get absurdly long.  

On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 2:19 PM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:
Is there a lojban equivalent for "deja vu"?


On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 2:11 PM, Robin Lee Powell <rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org> wrote:
It seems to me that we should make fu'ivla, at least sometimes, the
way English does: by contracting annoyingly long compound words.

Example: "cellphone", which is its own word short for "cellular
telephone" (at least), which are themselves compounds if I'm not
mistaken.  It seems to me that we could do something similar, by
creating the crazy-long jvajvo word and then, if it's popular,
ripping parts out in such a way as to create a *fu'ivla* rather than
a less-jva-jvo

Just a thought.

-Robin


--
They say:  "The first AIs will be built by the military as weapons."
And I'm  thinking:  "Does it even occur to you to try for something
other  than  the default  outcome?"  See http://shrunklink.com/cdiz
http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/ *** http://www.lojban.org/


To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org
with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.




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