From eyeonus@gmail.com Sun Feb 14 07:37:27 2010 Received: from mail-ew0-f223.google.com ([209.85.219.223]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1NggX8-0003eq-SS for lojban-list@lojban.org; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 07:37:25 -0800 Received: by ewy23 with SMTP id 23so67394ewy.4 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 07:37:12 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=3O66I+9f518Ah/vt+L3dv5weCzWlntkPya2fxgAcqoY=; b=hJCWuXVAHO7arQVi44tBiCeqgy6Mge+WWWnZ2JmQAWvQhLXHTytAp0GEccvNCIw4wZ wHXe893EFmLCk1guDGmxk9Id7pPvP/sEKoguWW3VnwW3uu19KX3Z+vfrzsvogklTukUq 8f6DLKtGI1ZpwuiV7OyCc2W/iFgjg/S0jTOLo= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=PloQTmDnAdRaiJbSv7awJJscQBbhOn3BbycM2v9NhdS54svGqpm3h2O+L3zDAxez88 IiQAvq1LJFXR19nzZBlJZOJwh+6Pqd678wLzRdJ/JR7PFXMC2B3793n3i5iOzv2EI83A dxGjjxEpxPOTW1gd/R9IKO3mba8VgksRQN8GY= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.185.75 with SMTP id t53mr537944wem.208.1266161832267; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 07:37:12 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20100214090601.GT19917@digitalkingdom.org> References: <401240.5931.qm@web88003.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <702226df1002010715h68a3b3abuddaebae79ed8ea74@mail.gmail.com> <772284.89526.qm@web88004.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <702226df1002010907q401169b1w1467e38f44dfaf3d@mail.gmail.com> <221614.99169.qm@web88007.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <702226df1002011320y5c108575l2c201b4e607c234@mail.gmail.com> <702226df1002011331k4c07c9cfm9932ae55eaf6fcbb@mail.gmail.com> <20100214090601.GT19917@digitalkingdom.org> Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 08:37:12 -0700 Message-ID: <702226df1002140737g5c92d927k7b471e764d2c34c3@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: smart.fm From: "Jon \"Top Hat\" Jones" To: lojban-list@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e64986d23d8fca047f914615 --0016e64986d23d8fca047f914615 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 2:06 AM, Robin Lee Powell < rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org> wrote: > On Mon, Feb 01, 2010 at 03:31:14PM -0600, Jon Top Hat Jones wrote: > > I have come to the conclusion that it would be beneficial to this > > project if there was some sort of central online repository for > > the lojban audio re: the Smart.fm lessons, the reason being that > > it would be a simple matter for those of us who are putting the > > entries in the lessons would be able to download the audio for the > > entry from said repository. > > Is there some reason not to just make a page on the main web site > and attach them? > > Um, permission? > General commentary on the project as a whole: > > I find myself looking for a web service for flashcard stuff, and > this seems decent enough. There is something I'm wondering about > how you went about it, though: > > Why not get all the words up there even if you don't have audio for > them? Can't you attach audio later? That way people who don't need > pronounciation help can just use them. I don't think that having > sound for every single gismu is really all that helpful, anyways; > having sound for sentences is something else entirely, of course. > Honestly, the only reason for having the audio first is because, at this point, Smart.fm is really flawed insofar as editing existing items is concerned. To attach audio to an item when creating the item is virtually painless and takes basically the amount of time required to find the file on your computer, whereas to attach audio to an already created file takes as much as 4 times that amount. In addition, if the person attaching the audio is not the person that created the entry, Smart.fm duplicates the item and attaches the audio to the duplicate, which causes myriad other problems. Granted, the audio doesn't matter for people that already know the correct way to pronounce lojban. I suppose it's not absolutely neccessary to have it. There is a problem in not attaching audio, however, that being that without it, Smart.fm will still play audio for the entries, in the form of a computer-generated female voice that attampts to pronounce them according to English rules. > As it is, it's basically completely useless for me to keep > up-to-date on my Lojban memorization, which is sad. > Because it's incomplete? I agree. It is sad. And it will comtinue to be incomplete for a very long time, because at this point in time there are only two people working on it AT ALL, and it'll take a very long time to make the lesson complete. At this point slightly less than 11% of the eventual entries have definitions for Smart.fm, and only 3.5% of the terms have been entered into Smart.fm. There are 4,843 terms in total. That's an awful lot of work for two people- which is why I've asked for assistance on numerous occasions. > It seems to me that the right thing to do is to make cards for all > the base words, then make sentences that use many of them and make > sound for those (say, phrasebook type stuff), *then* make sounds for > individual words. > > -Robin > > -- > They say: "The first AIs will be built by the military as weapons." > And I'm thinking: "Does it even occur to you to try for something > other than the default outcome?" See http://shrunklink.com/cdiz > http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/ *** http://www.lojban.org/ > > > To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org > with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if > you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help. > > -- mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.a'o.e'e ko klama le bende pe denpa bu --0016e64986d23d8fca047f914615 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 2:06 AM, Robin Lee Powel= l <rlpo= well@digitalkingdom.org> wrote:
On Mon, Feb 01, 2010 at 03:31:14PM -0600, Jon Top Hat Jon= es wrote:
> I have come to the conclusion that it would be beneficial= to this
> project if there was some sort of central online repositor= y for
> the lojban audio re: the Smart.fm lessons, the reason being that
&g= t; it would be a simple matter for those of us who are putting the
> = entries in the lessons would be able to download the audio for the
> = entry from said repository.

Is there some reason not to just make a page on the main web site=
and attach them?

Um, permission?
=A0
General commentary on the projec= t as a whole:

I find myself looking for a web service for flashcard = stuff, and
this seems decent enough. =A0There is something I'm wondering about
= how you went about it, though:

Why not get all the words up there ev= en if you don't have audio for
them? =A0Can't you attach audio l= ater? =A0That way people who don't need
pronounciation help can just use them. =A0I don't think that having
= sound for every single gismu is really all that helpful, anyways;
having= sound for sentences is something else entirely, of course.
Honestly, the only reason for having the audio first is because, at th= is point, Smart.fm is really flawed insofar as editing existing items is co= ncerned. To attach audio to an item when creating the item is virtually pai= nless and takes basically the amount of time required to find the file on y= our computer, whereas to attach audio to an already created file takes as m= uch as 4 times that amount. In addition, if the person attaching the audio = is not the person that created the entry, Smart.fm duplicates the item and = attaches the audio to the duplicate, which causes myriad other problems.
=A0
Granted, the audio doesn't matter for people that already know the= correct way to pronounce lojban. I suppose it's not absolutely neccess= ary to have it. There is a problem in not attaching=A0audio, however, that = being that without it, Smart.fm will still play audio for the entries, in t= he form of a computer-generated female voice that attampts to pronounce the= m according to English rules.
=A0
=A0
As it is, it's basically com= pletely useless for me to keep
up-to-date on my Lojban memorization, whi= ch is sad.
Because it's incomplete? I agree. It is sad. And it will comtinue = to be incomplete for a very long time, because at this point in time there = are only two people working on it AT ALL, and it'll take a very long ti= me to make the lesson complete. At this point=A0slightly less than 11% of t= he eventual entries have definitions for Smart.fm, and only 3.5% of the ter= ms have been entered into Smart.fm. There are 4,843 terms in total. That= 9;s an awful lot of work for two people- which is why I've asked for as= sistance on numerous occasions.
=A0
It seems to me that the right th= ing to do is to make cards for all
the base words, then make sentences t= hat use many of them and make
sound for those (say, phrasebook type stuff), *then* make sounds for
ind= ividual words.

-Robin

--
They say: =A0"The first AIs = will be built by the military as weapons."
And I'm =A0thinking:= =A0"Does it even occur to you to try for something
other =A0than =A0the default =A0outcome?" =A0See http://shrunklink.com/cdiz
http://ww= w.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/ *** http://www.lojban.org/


To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org
with the s= ubject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.




--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.a'o.e'e = ko klama le bende pe denpa bu

--0016e64986d23d8fca047f914615--