From eyeonus@gmail.com Mon Feb 15 06:52:40 2010 Received: from mail-fx0-f209.google.com ([209.85.220.209]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Nh2JN-0000AT-TP for lojban-list@lojban.org; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 06:52:39 -0800 Received: by fxm1 with SMTP id 1so5129118fxm.4 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 06:52:27 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=a8NeCGnO/GU5uTKQxnlYw9xl3uFzIkn8BO8ICqY6mLg=; b=EwDp9Z+7aQjSvwK3Ceytktn4XokQRDegn172qC+IccL6NYiOyP0RR7T7s68r4IDhYk 9QfV5+HhtVpIxYKm+p3R48TQ3JbtGSANZy3XKQLDnw1o0nY7S9BmGhkTnUjyYQjn0tWY LkK12BgiHmcOV2at0hpVKfKv5yeEUMEtmCiC0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=J5oq4sT9MALGuj4+xD9Q1G+iCpDo0MXlqKDDCbR3UNaKQCfAHcxrKKRB7JjQzNwuwJ 4LLbx4xOe+gKAlHDkgwVb0YPJNx92or8qVrNfqaSjQKU7rzmLGs39WVhPMmPJMeZljMx tlecQQUwMVl9e7XH4KdL/WrL45gsDVvOc0FEY= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.87.3 with SMTP id x3mr830583wee.132.1266245547090; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 06:52:27 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <249d5b951002141543s21cdc235jd2762c3334791979@mail.gmail.com> References: <401240.5931.qm@web88003.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <702226df1002010907q401169b1w1467e38f44dfaf3d@mail.gmail.com> <221614.99169.qm@web88007.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <702226df1002011320y5c108575l2c201b4e607c234@mail.gmail.com> <702226df1002011331k4c07c9cfm9932ae55eaf6fcbb@mail.gmail.com> <20100214090601.GT19917@digitalkingdom.org> <702226df1002140737g5c92d927k7b471e764d2c34c3@mail.gmail.com> <5715b9301002141017h5ab0aeb7pb6cc08936785e250@mail.gmail.com> <702226df1002141427w7f00e894y49e6281a6221957c@mail.gmail.com> <249d5b951002141543s21cdc235jd2762c3334791979@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 07:52:26 -0700 Message-ID: <702226df1002150652h7992fe86uea8279140d12613f@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: smart.fm From: "Jon \"Top Hat\" Jones" To: lojban-list@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6d7e89a08646d047fa4c4bc --0016e6d7e89a08646d047fa4c4bc Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 As far as making lessons is concerned, not at this point, no. They're supposedly working on that. Before they went through a major site change, it was possible to upload a list, thus creating an entire lesson in one go. The site has stated that it will be bringing that feature back at some point. As far as a site for *learning* lessons is concerned, though, smart.fm is actually really good- good enough for me to put up with the current inadequacies of the lesson making interface. On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 4:43 PM, MorphemeAddict wrote: > It seems to me that smart.fm is not so smart, and so maybe a different > venue would be better. > > stevo > On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 5:27 PM, Jon "Top Hat" Jones wrote: > >> Smart.fm doesn't currently have any method to add or edit entries except >> manually, one at a time. >> >> The best place to start is the smart.fm gismu Google doc, >> which the location where all the work, excepting the audio, is being done at >> this point. >> >> On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 11:17 AM, Luke Bergen wrote: >> >>> You could just put all the terms in and then use an autoIt script or >>> something to modify the existing words later. That would remove some of the >>> pain, I think. >>> >>> Now that I have a mic I could try to start helping. I have to head out >>> at the moment but I can take a look later? Where would be a good place for >>> me to start? (don't want to duplicate entries) >>> >>> On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 10:37 AM, Jon "Top Hat" Jones < >>> eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 2:06 AM, Robin Lee Powell < >>>> rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Mon, Feb 01, 2010 at 03:31:14PM -0600, Jon Top Hat Jones wrote: >>>>> > I have come to the conclusion that it would be beneficial to this >>>>> > project if there was some sort of central online repository for >>>>> > the lojban audio re: the Smart.fm lessons, the reason being that >>>>> > it would be a simple matter for those of us who are putting the >>>>> > entries in the lessons would be able to download the audio for the >>>>> > entry from said repository. >>>>> >>>>> Is there some reason not to just make a page on the main web site >>>>> and attach them? >>>>> >>>>> Um, permission? >>>> >>>> >>>>> General commentary on the project as a whole: >>>>> >>>>> I find myself looking for a web service for flashcard stuff, and >>>>> this seems decent enough. There is something I'm wondering about >>>>> how you went about it, though: >>>>> >>>>> Why not get all the words up there even if you don't have audio for >>>>> them? Can't you attach audio later? That way people who don't need >>>>> pronounciation help can just use them. I don't think that having >>>>> sound for every single gismu is really all that helpful, anyways; >>>>> having sound for sentences is something else entirely, of course. >>>>> >>>> Honestly, the only reason for having the audio first is because, at this >>>> point, Smart.fm is really flawed insofar as editing existing items is >>>> concerned. To attach audio to an item when creating the item is virtually >>>> painless and takes basically the amount of time required to find the file on >>>> your computer, whereas to attach audio to an already created file takes as >>>> much as 4 times that amount. In addition, if the person attaching the audio >>>> is not the person that created the entry, Smart.fm duplicates the item and >>>> attaches the audio to the duplicate, which causes myriad other problems. >>>> >>>> Granted, the audio doesn't matter for people that already know the >>>> correct way to pronounce lojban. I suppose it's not absolutely neccessary to >>>> have it. There is a problem in not attaching audio, however, that being that >>>> without it, Smart.fm will still play audio for the entries, in the form of a >>>> computer-generated female voice that attampts to pronounce them according to >>>> English rules. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> As it is, it's basically completely useless for me to keep >>>>> up-to-date on my Lojban memorization, which is sad. >>>>> >>>> Because it's incomplete? I agree. It is sad. And it will comtinue to be >>>> incomplete for a very long time, because at this point in time there are >>>> only two people working on it AT ALL, and it'll take a very long time to >>>> make the lesson complete. At this point slightly less than 11% of the >>>> eventual entries have definitions for Smart.fm, and only 3.5% of the terms >>>> have been entered into Smart.fm. There are 4,843 terms in total. That's an >>>> awful lot of work for two people- which is why I've asked for assistance on >>>> numerous occasions. >>>> >>>> >>>>> It seems to me that the right thing to do is to make cards for all >>>>> the base words, then make sentences that use many of them and make >>>>> sound for those (say, phrasebook type stuff), *then* make sounds for >>>>> individual words. >>>>> >>>>> -Robin >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> They say: "The first AIs will be built by the military as weapons." >>>>> And I'm thinking: "Does it even occur to you to try for something >>>>> other than the default outcome?" See http://shrunklink.com/cdiz >>>>> http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/ *** http://www.lojban.org/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to >>>>> lojban-list-request@lojban.org >>>>> with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or >>>>> if >>>>> you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> mu'o mi'e .aionys. >>>> >>>> .i.a'o.e'e ko klama le bende pe denpa bu >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> mu'o mi'e .aionys. >> >> .i.a'o.e'e ko klama le bende pe denpa bu >> >> > -- mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.a'o.e'e ko klama le bende pe denpa bu --0016e6d7e89a08646d047fa4c4bc Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
As far as making lessons is concerned, not at this point, no. They'= ;re supposedly working on that. Before they went through a major site chang= e, it was possible to upload a list, thus creating an entire lesson in one = go. The site has stated that it will be bringing that feature back at some = point.
=A0
As far as a site for learning lessons is concerned, though, <= a href=3D"http://smart.fm">smart.fm is actually really good- good enoug= h for me to put up with the current inadequacies of the lesson making inter= face.

On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 4:43 PM, MorphemeAddict = <lytlesw@gmail.co= m> wrote:
It seems to me that sma= rt.fm is not so smart, and so maybe a different venue would be better. =
=A0
stevo
On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 5:27 PM, Jon "Top H= at" Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:
Smart.fm doesn't currently have any method to add or edit entries = except manually, one at a time.
=A0
The best place to start is the smart.fm gismu Google doc, which the location where all= the work, excepting the audio, is being done at this point.

On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 11:17 AM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:
You could just put all the terms= in and then use an autoIt script or something to modify the existing words= later. =A0That would remove some of the pain, I think.=20

Now that I have a mic I could try to start helping. =A0I have to head = out at the moment but I can take a look later? =A0Where would be a good pla= ce for me to start? (don't want to duplicate entries)

On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 10:37 AM, Jon "Top = Hat" Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:


On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 2:06 AM, Robin Lee Powell &l= t;rlpowell= @digitalkingdom.org> wrote:
On Mon, Feb 01, 2010 at 03:31:14PM -0600, Jon Top Hat Jones wrote:
= > I have come to the conclusion that it would be beneficial to this
&= gt; project if there was some sort of central online repository for
> the lojban audio re: the Smart.fm lessons, the reason being that
&g= t; it would be a simple matter for those of us who are putting the
> = entries in the lessons would be able to download the audio for the
> = entry from said repository.

Is there some reason not to just make a page on the main web site=
and attach them?

Um, permission?
=A0
General commentary on the projec= t as a whole:

I find myself looking for a web service for flashcard = stuff, and
this seems decent enough. =A0There is something I'm wondering about
= how you went about it, though:

Why not get all the words up there ev= en if you don't have audio for
them? =A0Can't you attach audio l= ater? =A0That way people who don't need
pronounciation help can just use them. =A0I don't think that having
= sound for every single gismu is really all that helpful, anyways;
having= sound for sentences is something else entirely, of course.
Honestly, the only reason for having the audio first is because, at th= is point, Smart.fm is really flawed insofar as editing existing items is co= ncerned. To attach audio to an item when creating the item is virtually pai= nless and takes basically the amount of time required to find the file on y= our computer, whereas to attach audio to an already created file takes as m= uch as 4 times that amount. In addition, if the person attaching the audio = is not the person that created the entry, Smart.fm duplicates the item and = attaches the audio to the duplicate, which causes myriad other problems.
=A0
Granted, the audio doesn't matter for people that already know the= correct way to pronounce lojban. I suppose it's not absolutely neccess= ary to have it. There is a problem in not attaching=A0audio, however, that = being that without it, Smart.fm will still play audio for the entries, in t= he form of a computer-generated female voice that attampts to pronounce the= m according to English rules.
=A0
=A0
As it is, it's basically com= pletely useless for me to keep
up-to-date on my Lojban memorization, whi= ch is sad.
Because it's incomplete? I agree. It is sad. And it will comtinue = to be incomplete for a very long time, because at this point in time there = are only two people working on it AT ALL, and it'll take a very long ti= me to make the lesson complete. At this point=A0slightly less than 11% of t= he eventual entries have definitions for Smart.fm, and only 3.5% of the ter= ms have been entered into Smart.fm. There are 4,843 terms in total. That= 9;s an awful lot of work for two people- which is why I've asked for as= sistance on numerous occasions.
=A0
It seems to me that the right th= ing to do is to make cards for all
the base words, then make sentences t= hat use many of them and make
sound for those (say, phrasebook type stuff), *then* make sounds for
ind= ividual words.

-Robin

--
They say: =A0"The first AIs = will be built by the military as weapons."
And I'm =A0thinking:= =A0"Does it even occur to you to try for something
other =A0than =A0the default =A0outcome?" =A0See http://shrunklink.com/cdiz
http://ww= w.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/ *** http://www.lojban.org/


To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org=
with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.




--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.a'o.e'e ko kla= ma le bende pe denpa bu





--
mu'o mi= 9;e .aionys.

.i.a'o.e'e ko klama le bende pe denpa bu




--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.a'o.e'e ko klama le b= ende pe denpa bu

--0016e6d7e89a08646d047fa4c4bc--