From 3voeuSwoJBkAllnncodkcuiockn.eqonqldcpiqqingitqwru.eqo@groups.bounces.google.com Sat Mar 27 15:34:01 2010 Received: from mail-gw0-f61.google.com ([74.125.83.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <3voeuSwoJBkAllnncodkcuiockn.eqonqldcpiqqingitqwru.eqo@groups.bounces.google.com>) id 1NveZn-0005tt-En for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Sat, 27 Mar 2010 15:34:00 -0700 Received: by gwb1 with SMTP id 1sf7323694gwb.16 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 2010 15:33:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received :in-reply-to:references:date:received:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=2cb+FzyqNmWAFdaLvXR0oT82fTOQMPK5JEHXIUs4SZs=; b=y/wJzQI1kazHV4jHIz60z3DOL24LBWqqfIeX5i4o4Tj04t3glvIfFvSpnpZsNWCjOq sQfL1hMiPn46R1KaIm3gU8Yaq7oDh++zAE6UWwIUaB/rhYsP3YRyKt25q1B7UolF7AWM QMRnCPQOb/co48K/MznIGcXN1I5+waRoGuhk8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=06wPQfhyPicPh95dIIvgj0LA5/+07j0rSKdOl6eiWLhZEv7UcZHBS/RpI/6c5i904c sbz65oDl6Dg7f1ChrYtYFEqH9GbhHUTaj2fUBisBSpMcxwdOSZB4lbbLEqgGyw4mlw09 DXZEeq+F71KWlmz8TFj5G49uYI6TwKB6KtU4w= Received: by 10.91.56.20 with SMTP id i20mr201443agk.52.1269729214078; Sat, 27 Mar 2010 15:33:34 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.86.126.32 with SMTP id y32ls600397fgc.0.p; Sat, 27 Mar 2010 15:33:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.87.38.24 with SMTP id q24mr154964fgj.12.1269729211826; Sat, 27 Mar 2010 15:33:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.139.23 with SMTP id c23mr159989bku.24.1269703575789; Sat, 27 Mar 2010 08:26:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.139.23 with SMTP id c23mr159988bku.24.1269703575671; Sat, 27 Mar 2010 08:26:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qw-out-1920.google.com (qw-out-1920.google.com [74.125.92.145]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id v26si1510685bkt.3.2010.03.27.08.26.14; Sat, 27 Mar 2010 08:26:14 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 74.125.92.145 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.92.145; Received: by qw-out-1920.google.com with SMTP id 4so2593672qwk.54 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 2010 08:26:13 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.86.12 with HTTP; Sat, 27 Mar 2010 08:26:13 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20100327004723.GM32085@digitalkingdom.org> References: <20100326192151.GF32085@digitalkingdom.org> <27513e551003261719h701eef62y75588a36ba6279cd@mail.gmail.com> <20100327003436.GL32085@digitalkingdom.org> <20100327004723.GM32085@digitalkingdom.org> Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2010 12:26:13 -0300 Received: by 10.229.111.81 with SMTP id r17mr1613677qcp.32.1269703573649; Sat, 27 Mar 2010 08:26:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <925d17561003270826k24d97b18i8d2f7334b94400c8@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [lojban] cmavo list on smart.fm From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 74.125.92.145 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/974cf8a7589023b7 X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/e63d22644c6b6199 Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 9:47 PM, Robin Lee Powell wrote: > > I've compromised slightly, by the way; it's actually the keyword > plus the first bit of the "definition"; up to the first : or ; I just want to strongly emphasize here the scare quotes around "definition"= . > This just give a bit more detail, for learning. =A0Examples: I would scarequote "learning" too. It should be strongly emphasized that memorizing keywords, most especially in the case of cmavo, is in most cases nowhere near learning those words. For example: > se =A0 =A0 =A02nd conversion (2nd conversion) If you don't already know what "se" does, "2nd conversion" tells you next to nothing about "se". Even if you do have a vague idea, it still doesn't tell you whether "se broda brode" is "(se broda) brode" or "se (broda brode)" for example, so learning "se" involves something other than flashcards. > lo =A0 =A0 =A0the really is (veridical descriptor) which is ok, as long as you don't get the impression that "lo" is a definite article because "the" is a definite article, or that "really" has anything to do with existence as opposed to veridicality, or that "is" implies singular, and so on. I'm not proposing any alternative better keyword, but people should be reminded that learning keywords is not the same as learning what the word means or how to use it, and this is especially true for structure words. So flashcards are fine in helping with memorization of cmavo you have already learned, not so good for learning cmavo you have never met before. /end rant mu'o mi'e xorxes --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.