From 3K2SvSwoJBooxxzzo0pwo6u0owz.q20z2xpo1u22uzsu52836.q20@groups.bounces.google.com Sun Mar 28 07:14:30 2010 Received: from mail-vw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.212.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <3K2SvSwoJBooxxzzo0pwo6u0owz.q20z2xpo1u22uzsu52836.q20@groups.bounces.google.com>) id 1NvtFx-0001Bm-KJ for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Sun, 28 Mar 2010 07:14:30 -0700 Received: by vws20 with SMTP id 20sf14060959vws.16 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 2010 07:14:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:in-reply-to :references:date:received:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:precedence :mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:x-thread-url :x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=I4wtqTWqD2c6rHCGLxfr6SvLU8SBtVLA9AzY3cnWGl0=; b=Utyhk+P+aOL7Geew4hQoe50uzX2nuwFxSfKQ4OjFjMHh4CWxOxarKmzW8lKgIPgEQ+ f8jD+xltcMAjfbFOugkJ56o5+10XmYD3nyUOYxwixpDVdC4XUUF6JTm99eU4jX4oOKqO EdobaK0LZIWVB/DkEtxGbPW31PaFeX6Gv5wbE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=5uRKCz1K10Lo1WpU5P7BhCMVusdgKkIXEyHrUg4pUtqBzCoepjmBtGe5oT7iqMBt7Z kLBhfCAPbkj5a/g+ySiZwatY3d74B28gFLzx6lbu/bTFsH/Rtih946GjKEl54ikOQGQh wcR9E7lYcA5gD/u4E+UI+OBDHe3iL/S6HUXlQ= Received: by 10.220.128.82 with SMTP id j18mr298935vcs.58.1269785643580; Sun, 28 Mar 2010 07:14:03 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.220.47.164 with SMTP id n36ls2232179vcf.1.p; Sun, 28 Mar 2010 07:14:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.49.164 with SMTP id v36mr935100vcf.13.1269785642148; Sun, 28 Mar 2010 07:14:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.49.164 with SMTP id v36mr935099vcf.13.1269785642121; Sun, 28 Mar 2010 07:14:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qw-out-2122.google.com (qw-out-2122.google.com [74.125.92.25]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 29si7727101vws.2.2010.03.28.07.14.01; Sun, 28 Mar 2010 07:14:01 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 74.125.92.25 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.92.25; Received: by qw-out-2122.google.com with SMTP id 9so83891qwb.57 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 2010 07:14:00 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.86.12 with HTTP; Sun, 28 Mar 2010 07:14:00 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <2320FCB7-86FE-4E30-9F24-DAD6E40024D7@evertype.com> References: <2320FCB7-86FE-4E30-9F24-DAD6E40024D7@evertype.com> Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 11:14:00 -0300 Received: by 10.229.242.85 with SMTP id lh21mr1864144qcb.67.1269785640642; Sun, 28 Mar 2010 07:14:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <925d17561003280714y30d5eb1fo19b9f97eb6902eaa@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [lojban] la .alis. From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 74.125.92.25 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/62f96e395a91e500 X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/6bd901a6ef5c3133 Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Mar 28, 2010 at 9:19 AM, Michael Everson wro= te: > Robin said: > >> That is, he wanted it to look like this: >> >> Mi klama la Bast,n. I la Bab cusku "lu mi klama li'u" > > Not quite. But I'd be very interested to talk with people about the vario= us options one might have for punctuation markup. Punctuation markup has been used for Lojban texts in the past, although not quite in that way. >> Caps at start of sentences, quote marks, a few other things I can't reme= mber. > > Caps for proper names (la Alis), and anomalous stress marked by acute acc= ents rather than by capitalization (which is thereby freed for other use). = Near as I can tell the only word in the text affected by this is "la meri,A= n" ("la Meri,=C1n" or "la Meri,=E1n"; the original is "Mary Ann"). I'm all in favor of not using caps to mark stress. The acute accent is fine for me, but unnecessary. I don't think caps for proper names is such a good idea though. > I find long paragraphs with no clear visual indication of sentence bounda= ries to be bewildering. I am sure that computers and savants find it quite = simple to parse. I as a multilingual trained linguist expert in writing sys= tems, I still find it much easier to navigate the language when standard La= tin-script conventions are used. The sentence separator ".i" is visually quite distinct though. It may be that I'm just too used to Lojban by now, but I find caps at the start of Lojban sentences more distracting than helpful. Would you have the ".i" capitalized, or the first letter of the following word? > In for a penny, in for a pound. Full stops are not necessary; they are re= dundant. So too are quotation marks, and since anomalous stress can be more= congenially marked with the acute accent (as in Spanish) than by SHOUTING,= there's no reason an edition of a text could not choose to do that, and th= ereby permit capital letters to be used, redundantly, to mark the beginning= s of sentences, proper names, and whatnot. Personally, I like to reserve capital letters for letter names, so "A" instead of "abu", "B" instead of "by", and so on, just like "1" can stand for "pa", "2" for "re" and so on. It would be interesting to see how the Alice text looks with that convention, given the use of letter names as pronouns, > Lojban's "audio-visual isomorphism" is extremely cool. I wish someone would explain what "audio-visual isomorphism" is supposed to mean. Is it something more than "phonemic orthography"? There is and never has been any strict isomorphism between the spoken and the written forms of a Lojban text, as far as I can see. Why are Lojbanists so fond of crazy terminology? > But centuries of Latin typographic practice have evolved because those pr= actices are *useful* to readers (as useful as the full stop) and I can see = no reason not to pursue my project just because you and a few others on IRC= , "umm, kinda told me where to stick" the idea. Please do pursue it. (The full stop is not used in Lojban as in the Latin typographic practice though.) > I would appreciate it if anyone who *is* interested in this would say so,= as I'd like to discuss the options regarding redundant markup of quoted ma= terial. I'm interested. mu'o mi'e xorxes --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.