From 3Z7SvSwgSBhcE8CBJ1880535Gx875A30B9.BE38B6yxA3BB3813EBHCF.zB9@groups.bounces.google.com Sun Mar 28 12:56:50 2010 Received: from mail-pz0-f145.google.com ([209.85.222.145]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <3Z7SvSwgSBhcE8CBJ1880535Gx875A30B9.BE38B6yxA3BB3813EBHCF.zB9@groups.bounces.google.com>) id 1NvybF-0005K2-Bu for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Sun, 28 Mar 2010 12:56:50 -0700 Received: by pzk9 with SMTP id 9sf1559856pzk.28 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 2010 12:56:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:received:received:date:from:to :subject:message-id:references:mime-version:in-reply-to:user-agent :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-disposition:content-transfer-encoding; bh=KSC2qNeHcOMNhmuCYNemVzrAyu15Com7jMLG4NZi0JE=; b=y3aB/CYmW5UF/fQhWH/ujS+51r0A3GrSOyS84eOtU0bwg2zcwpVD74O0MjQOThqCeP s+5Ns7TR/be65CQyEhbKIYra4xkiG15gPHPvFver5+ZOR4M84GmIzcRVORSJrwetXFgO rIoGzeUfSxPqw7Tp106raptK9hrLlVFhiZxog= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:date:from:to:subject:message-id:references :mime-version:in-reply-to:user-agent :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-disposition:content-transfer-encoding; b=gvuCm+f5ldD4Djiix9sPLEInl8tCwQc8GuBlpgB69RBPrKREB8job3IsT/pY/CqZGY CTrpjU+6JQC+fECPqp8KJ0osl9v+AQd9gfYG0TwBXF14MYlF79NlMXXAZiYLltjc6/eS R91ucPJFhBjU/TPFWwpBA8Z8ZIyxJV56T2lGE= Received: by 10.115.66.9 with SMTP id t9mr187801wak.4.1269806183777; Sun, 28 Mar 2010 12:56:23 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.115.67.27 with SMTP id u27ls77712wak.2.p; Sun, 28 Mar 2010 12:56:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.115.102.23 with SMTP id e23mr767944wam.8.1269806181287; Sun, 28 Mar 2010 12:56:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.115.102.23 with SMTP id e23mr767943wam.8.1269806181250; Sun, 28 Mar 2010 12:56:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail1.sea5.speakeasy.net (mail1.sea5.speakeasy.net [69.17.117.3]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 19si846806pzk.15.2010.03.28.12.56.21; Sun, 28 Mar 2010 12:56:21 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 69.17.117.3 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org) client-ip=69.17.117.3; Received: (qmail 3541 invoked from network); 28 Mar 2010 19:56:20 -0000 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.66.169]) (envelope-sender ) by mail1.sea5.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP for ; 28 Mar 2010 19:56:20 -0000 Received: from rlpowell by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Nvyap-0005JJ-MS for lojban@googlegroups.com; Sun, 28 Mar 2010 12:56:20 -0700 Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 12:56:19 -0700 From: Robin Lee Powell To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] la .alis. Message-ID: <20100328195619.GM6600@digitalkingdom.org> References: <2320FCB7-86FE-4E30-9F24-DAD6E40024D7@evertype.com> <925d17561003280714y30d5eb1fo19b9f97eb6902eaa@mail.gmail.com> <4BAF7446.6070008@gmail.com> <6053DB40-92FF-402B-AEE0-78CE947F9D9E@gmail.com> <20100328193022.GH6600@digitalkingdom.org> <22BA6CBB-3B28-468B-97FC-AAE24D5D0F4D@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <22BA6CBB-3B28-468B-97FC-AAE24D5D0F4D@gmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 69.17.117.3 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org) smtp.mail=rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org X-Original-Sender: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/62f96e395a91e500 X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/cb255a179fc29627 Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Mar 28, 2010 at 08:52:28PM +0100, Michael Everson wrote: > On 28 Mar 2010, at 20:30, Robin Lee Powell wrote: >=20 > >> Jonathan wrote {la.parIs.} but it would seem to me to be > >> unlikely that this represents [la=CA=94pa=CB=88ris=CA=94] with a glott= al stop > >> before the [p] and after the [s].=20 > >=20 > > Actually, that's *exactly* what it represents. > >=20 > > Having learned a little bit about what our typograhpic > > conventions actually *mean* might result in less hostility. >=20 > I have read and understood the relevant sections in What is > Lojban? (which John Cowan gave me in 2003) as well as > http://www.lojban.org/publications/reference_grammar/chapter3.html >=20 > A "pause" is not the same thing as a "glottal stop", and both [=CA=94p] > and final [s=CA=94] are quite unlikely segments; the first would tend > towards becoming a glottalized [p=E2=80=99] and the second... well, is > really like following [s] with a cough, which I don't think is the > description you intend. Is it? >=20 > Of course [la=CA=94 pa] is not particularly unusual. I might point out > that I also speak Danish (not as a native) and I'm pretty good > with unusual [=CA=94] placement. My apologies; you've entirely surpassed my knowledge of formal phonetics (or whatever this is). All I know is that when I say "la .parIs." I say "la", and then do what I think is a glottal stop, and then say "parIs", and then do what I think is a glottal stop. *shrug* -Robin --=20 They say: "The first AIs will be built by the military as weapons." And I'm thinking: "Does it even occur to you to try for something other than the default outcome?" See http://shrunklink.com/cdiz http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/ *** http://www.lojban.org/ --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.