From 37duvSwcJBsQo8oyx42qwksv.mywvytlkxqyyqvoq1y4z2.myw@groups.bounces.google.com Sun Mar 28 15:45:36 2010 Received: from mail-yw0-f165.google.com ([209.85.211.165]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <37duvSwcJBsQo8oyx42qwksv.mywvytlkxqyyqvoq1y4z2.myw@groups.bounces.google.com>) id 1Nw1EY-0006x1-RC for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Sun, 28 Mar 2010 15:45:35 -0700 Received: by ywh37 with SMTP id 37sf5061119ywh.2 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 2010 15:45:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:in-reply-to :references:date:received:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=9SVNkTTnqjSaVcMEt1kq3nmOxh1v4RCwv07ycIALWRg=; b=ph1e7CnkH+okVq1ef1aWm4rmYwpTBZMESAez4T59t9o77muTXmb1+SG3Zfn6+WvYV0 7F+6tLT+aSPzoPAbrS41MydUhLIXBOpYanXYOASOulJrE+DldE3DP3gmEx5Wf3g8DAlY AvsbP7T36tIEIKYPLHv/bIeLdmEXlTAYFSEuI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=etD+hshANwGVNW16/GcMXOK5nETiP2iwHfHZi14QrBCM/E5CP+FujbQS0ouMdA2B36 vm3jx7QQ2/odMXkz2MOQ4ANzuC3GiP56jSE9NXnpZre3qVbIt+CSuAQAQl2Sk1JfpTNb 6ldIhVakYGXwfZgEYb8NTa/40PMREssJtQx2w= Received: by 10.91.56.20 with SMTP id i20mr302090agk.22.1269816302045; Sun, 28 Mar 2010 15:45:02 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.204.35.68 with SMTP id o4ls2307570bkd.1.p; Sun, 28 Mar 2010 15:45:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.7.220 with SMTP id e28mr276583bke.7.1269816300330; Sun, 28 Mar 2010 15:45:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.7.220 with SMTP id e28mr276582bke.7.1269816300247; Sun, 28 Mar 2010 15:45:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wy0-f174.google.com (mail-wy0-f174.google.com [74.125.82.174]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id a10si4310317bkc.1.2010.03.28.15.44.59; Sun, 28 Mar 2010 15:44:59 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.174 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.82.174; Received: by wyb39 with SMTP id 39so733896wyb.19 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 2010 15:44:59 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.2.209 with HTTP; Sun, 28 Mar 2010 15:44:58 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <2320FCB7-86FE-4E30-9F24-DAD6E40024D7@evertype.com> <925d17561003280714y30d5eb1fo19b9f97eb6902eaa@mail.gmail.com> <4BAF7446.6070008@gmail.com> <20100328192909.GG6600@digitalkingdom.org> Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 16:44:58 -0600 Received: by 10.216.157.129 with SMTP id o1mr2392660wek.197.1269816298968; Sun, 28 Mar 2010 15:44:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <702226df1003281544j5004ef4bqc2ee51ecfc31498c@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [lojban] la .alis. From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.174 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/62f96e395a91e500 X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/cb08e8440fcd6d5b Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e64982d06e17980482e425e8 --0016e64982d06e17980482e425e8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Sun, Mar 28, 2010 at 2:03 PM, Michael Everson wrote: > On 28 Mar 2010, at 20:29, Robin Lee Powell wrote: > > > I'll speak up (briefly, since it wasn't requested) for that side: I won't > buy a book claiming to be Lojban that uses seriously non-Lojban-standard > typographic conventions, > > Fair enough. Does that mean you wouldn't buy such a book if it were in > Tengwar? > That depends. Is it using Lojban's conventions or the conventions of English? If it's using Lojban conventions, yes. If it's using the same "seriously non-Lojban-standard typographic conventions" as it would were it using the Latin script, then no. Did I mention that I agree with Robin on this point about "seriously non-Lojban-standard typographic conventions"? No? I do. > > > and I will decry it to anyone who asks. > > That seems mean-spirited. :-( > > Ca'n't you enjoy a bit of fun? (Note how I wrote "ca'n't" there -- just as > Carroll did.) Ca'n't you appreciate an exercise in typography using > Victorian conventions for a Victorian book? > You want to use Gothic letters and what-not, fine. You want to use special fonts, fine. Just don't mess with the standard Lojban typographic conventions and we've got no problems. (What do you call a drop-cap that isn't a capital letter?) > > > There is an exception, however: I care very little about how stress is > indicated. Stress marking (specifically between using caps or using an > accent mark) has been a long-standing point of largely non-acrimonious > discussion; as far as I can tell, that's an issue on which the community is > somewhat divided, but no-one really cares all that much. > > So... you're flexible when you wish to be. Fair enough. :-) > > > Contrast this with using captials to mark the beginning of sentences or > proper names which, as And says, is very much not-OK to most Lojbanists. > > Well, I'm certainly not the first person to take an interest in such a > convention, according to the archives of this list. Sure, plenty of people > don't care for it, but at the end of the day I'm not trying to do any harm. > > Michael > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > > -- mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.a'o.e'e ko klama le bende pe denpa bu -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --0016e64982d06e17980482e425e8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Sun, Mar 28, 2010 at 2:03 PM, Michael Everson= <michael= .everson@gmail.com> wrote:
On 28 Mar 2010, at 20:29, Robin Lee Powell wrote:

= > I'll speak up (briefly, since it wasn't requested) for that si= de: I won't buy a book claiming to be Lojban that uses seriously non-Lo= jban-standard typographic conventions,

Fair enough. Does that mean you wouldn't buy such a book if i= t were in Tengwar?
=A0
That depends. Is it using Lojban's conventions or the conventions = of English? If it's using Lojban conventions, yes. If it's using th= e same "seriously non-Lojban-standard typographic conventions" as= it would were it using the Latin script, then no.
=A0
Did I mention that I agree with Robin on this point about "seriou= sly non-Lojban-standard typographic conventions"? No? I do.

> and I will decry it to anyone who asks.

<= /div>That seems mean-spirited. :-(

Ca'n't you enjoy a bit of= fun? (Note how I wrote "ca'n't" there -- just as Carroll= did.) Ca'n't you appreciate an exercise in typography using Victor= ian conventions for a Victorian book?
=A0
You want to use Gothic letters and what-not, fine. You want to use spe= cial fonts, fine. Just don't mess with the standard Lojban=A0typographi= c conventions and we've got no problems. (What do you call a drop-cap t= hat isn't a capital letter?)

> There is an exception, however: I care very litt= le about how stress is indicated. =A0Stress marking (specifically between u= sing caps or using an accent mark) has been a long-standing point of largel= y non-acrimonious discussion; as far as I can tell, that's an issue on = which the community is somewhat divided, but no-one really cares all that m= uch.

So... you're flexible when you wish to be. Fair enough. :-)

> Contrast this with using captials to mark the be= ginning of sentences or proper names which, as And says, is very much not-O= K to most Lojbanists.

Well, I'm certainly not the first pe= rson to take an interest in such a convention, according to the archives of= this list. Sure, plenty of people don't care for it, but at the end of= the day I'm not trying to do any harm.

Michael

--
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To post to this gro= up, send email to lojban@googleg= roups.com.
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For= more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?h= l=3Den.




--
mu'= o mi'e .aionys.

.i.a'o.e'e ko klama le bende pe denpa bu=

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
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