From eyeonus@gmail.com Thu Mar 04 07:36:01 2010 Received: from mail-ww0-f53.google.com ([74.125.82.53]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1NnD5d-00058M-Uz for lojban-list@lojban.org; Thu, 04 Mar 2010 07:36:01 -0800 Received: by wwi18 with SMTP id 18so1557260wwi.40 for ; Thu, 04 Mar 2010 07:35:47 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=KjsNBNIa/SUmYZH6XluEn8GpICMyi80NZj6k5wJqbvc=; b=Z1mtZWQI7KudlJiYtCSmeekwqUOXzz8aE/TOGg5nmFx+pg0hXAZE/pPtn7xtoR84PU xfmKD1lpA4dxiAvEC6XLlKaWJhfSzpmftrnh1LYBbzXmBJRZ+lBXNE6mHeiU/J4Yh6ti HKGpMd016HfKWiTAKfdBvvl28h7ljGLnPLlXs= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=YMvavhudMVJOy2Bs6Kxn6eT0zO7XRFvg+tq074A5H3UR4/ytw2eD5qN/oAu4rmEc3k lN2H/5I+SLcP8ZaQN1E7uwAcTUVVEW+VsrX4ywFmZxLKqnmX8Lp9MSIxRN9bfWtqZNY2 ZXHYvhN7T0H46cUkUK2haqDxDzE1fOH0dJ+js= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.88.12 with SMTP id z12mr1992534wee.165.1267716946814; Thu, 04 Mar 2010 07:35:46 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20100304000922.GF1159@digitalkingdom.org> References: <20100303220721.GX1159@digitalkingdom.org> <702226df1003031457i5f3bafe0w7df2dfa49ad6dc0b@mail.gmail.com> <20100303230307.GA1159@digitalkingdom.org> <702226df1003031510l1c53a9e1yc192b2ffdf99cbeb@mail.gmail.com> <20100303231339.GC1159@digitalkingdom.org> <702226df1003031536n376e5d09r1c817a5d0b67ceb2@mail.gmail.com> <20100304000922.GF1159@digitalkingdom.org> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 08:35:46 -0700 Message-ID: <702226df1003040735j468fb753y13666ab05fb4c612@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: More espeak words, please. From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban-list@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6da7ae54a680e0480fb5abc --0016e6da7ae54a680e0480fb5abc Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable For the gismu definitions, all the extraneous stuff (eg. anything between any braces) to be removed, all '/' replaced with ' or ', and all variants removed (eg. "bundle/package/cluster/clump/pack" except for the one or two most common or most different. (so, for example, the word in the third and/or fourth column of the gismu list, with {bakfu}, that would be 'bundle= ' and 'pack', whereas with {balni}, it would be 'balcony' and 'shelf'.) However, as Dag pointed out, the gismu definitions already have a simplifie= d form, so I don't think much if anything needs to be done for that. For the sumti definitions, for lack of a better way to put it, a humanized grammatical phrase. Some examples: sumti jbofi'e phrase Smart.fm definition lo bakri any/some chalk(s) a quantity of chalk lo se bakri any/some chalk source(s) a source of chalk lo te bakri any/some chalk form(s) a form of chalk sumti jbofi'e phrase Smart.fm definition lo cenba any/some vary-er(s) something varying lo se cenba any/some variant property(ies) a property of variance lo te cenba any/some degree(s) of variation a degree of variation lo ve cenba any/some conditions for variation a condition of varying sumti jbofi'e phrase Smart.fm definition lo dukse any/some excess(es) an excess lo se dukse any/some in excess thing(s) something in excess lo te dukse any/some standard for excess a standard of excess On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 5:09 PM, Robin Lee Powell < rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org> wrote: > On Wed, Mar 03, 2010 at 04:36:01PM -0700, Jonathan Jones wrote: > > On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 4:13 PM, Robin Lee Powell > > <[1]rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org> wrote: > > > > On Wed, Mar 03, 2010 at 04:10:48PM -0700, Jonathan Jones wrote: > > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BDThe list of the items is finished, the defini= tions for Smart.fm > are > > not. > > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BDIn point of fact, there are exactly three are= as that are not > > finished- the > > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BDaudio for the entries, > > > > Yep. > > > the simplified definitions for Smart.fm for about 70% of the > > > items, > > > > Trivially producable from jbofihe data. =EF=BF=BDI still want some= one to > > explain to me why we're simplifying them in the first place? > > > > Oi, I've already said why. The gismu definitions need to be simplifi= ed > > because, 1) The definitions from the gismu list are, more often than > not, > > too long for Smart.fm's cards, so they need to be shortened to fit, > and 2) > > They non-vocal punctuation needs to be edited out. > > > > For this reason the definition for bakfu, which in the gismu list is > "x1 > > is a bundle/package/cluster/clump/pack [shape/form] containing x2, > held > > together by x3", becomes "x1 is a bundle or pack containing x2 held > > together by x3" > > Again: that can be done well enough for the vast majority of words > by a simple script, and then fix the mistakes by hand. > > I just hate to see people spending human time when machine time > would do the job. Tell me what format you want it in, and I'll > write something to do what you just did to all the gismu. > > -Robin > > -- > They say: "The first AIs will be built by the military as weapons." > And I'm thinking: "Does it even occur to you to try for something > other than the default outcome?" See http://shrunklink.com/cdiz > http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/ *** http://www.lojban.org/ > > > To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.or= g > with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if > you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help. > > --=20 mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.a'o.e'e ko klama le bende pe denpa bu --0016e6da7ae54a680e0480fb5abc Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable For the gismu definitions, all the extraneous stuff (eg. anything between a= ny braces) to be removed, all '/' replaced with ' or ', and= all variants removed (eg. "bundle/package/cluster/clump/pack" ex= cept for the one or two most common or most different. (so, for example, th= e word in the third and/or fourth column of the gismu list, with {bakfu}, t= hat would be 'bundle' and 'pack', whereas with {balni}, it = would be 'balcony' and 'shelf'.) However, as Dag pointed ou= t, the gismu definitions already have a simplified form, so I don't thi= nk much if anything needs to be done for that.

For the sumti definitions, for lack of a better way to put i= t, a humanized grammatical phrase. Some examples:
sumti = jbofi'e phrase Sm= art.fm definition
<= /div>
lo bakri any/some chalk(s) a quantity of chalk=
=
lo se bakri a= ny/some chalk source(s)=C2=A0= a source of chalk
lo te bakri any/some chalk form(s= ) a form of chalk

sumti jbofi'e phrase Smart.fm definition<= /div>
lo cenba any/some= vary-er(s) = somethin= g varying
=
lo se cenba= any/some variant property(ies) a = property of variance
lo te cenba <= /span>any/some degree(s) of variation a degree of variation
=
lo ve cenba <= /span>any/some conditions for variation a condition of varying
=

sumti jbofi'e phrase Smart.fm definition
lo dukse any/some excess(es) an excess
=
=
lo se dukse any/some in excess thing(s) something in excess
=
=
lo te dukse <= /span>any/some standard for excess a standard of excess
=
=


On Wed, Mar 3, 201= 0 at 5:09 PM, Robin Lee Powell <rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org&= gt; wrote:
On Wed, Mar 03, 2010 at 04:36:01PM -0700, Jonathan Jones wrote:
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 4:13 PM, Robin Lee Powell
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0<[1]rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org> wrote:
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0On Wed, Mar 03, 2010 at 04:10:48PM -0700, Jonathan= Jones wrote:
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BDThe list of the items is f= inished, the definitions for Smart.fm are
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0not.
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BDIn point of fact, there ar= e exactly three areas that are not
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0finished- the
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BDaudio for the entries,
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Yep.
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> the simplified definitions for Smart.fm for a= bout 70% of the
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> items,
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Trivially producable from jbofihe data. =EF=BF=BDI= still want someone to
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0explain to me why we're simplifying them in th= e first place?
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0Oi, I've already said why. The gismu definitions need= to be simplified
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0because, 1) The definitions from the gismu list are, more= often than not,
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0too long for Smart.fm's cards, so they need to be sho= rtened to fit, and 2)
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0They non-vocal punctuation needs to be edited out.
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0For this reason the definition for bakfu, which in the gi= smu list is "x1
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0is a bundle/package/cluster/clump/pack [shape/form] conta= ining x2, held
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0together by x3", becomes "x1 is a bundle or pac= k containing x2 held
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0together by x3"

Again: that can be done well enough for the vast majority of words by a simple script, and then fix the mistakes by hand.

I just hate to see people spending human time when machine time
would do the job. =C2=A0Tell me what format you want it in, and I'll write something to do what you just did to all the gismu.

-Robin

--
They say: =C2=A0"The first AIs will be built by the military as weapon= s."
And I'm =C2=A0thinking: =C2=A0"Does it even occur to you to try fo= r something
other =C2=A0than =C2=A0the default =C2=A0outcome?" =C2=A0See http://shrunklink.com/cdi= z
http= ://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/ *** http://www.lojban.org/


To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org
with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.




--
mu'o mi= 'e .aionys.

.i.a'o.e'e ko klama le bende pe denpa bu
=
--0016e6da7ae54a680e0480fb5abc--