From 31cKwSwcJBpQ2M2CBIG4Ay69.0CA9C7zyB4CC4924FCIDG.0CA@groups.bounces.google.com Mon Mar 29 08:10:47 2010 Received: from mail-gx0-f198.google.com ([209.85.217.198]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <31cKwSwcJBpQ2M2CBIG4Ay69.0CA9C7zyB4CC4924FCIDG.0CA@groups.bounces.google.com>) id 1NwGby-0001ys-9Y for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 08:10:46 -0700 Received: by gxk22 with SMTP id 22sf18558461gxk.4 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 08:10:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:in-reply-to :references:date:received:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=YiVt81kHRbThv2G3NMnFkKD+z3YjOh/28Z/Oa7m/YRk=; b=AfNLn9McXfNc22uJhKkyRq1NMUwXa/e3dVxpeX4wGKw+P4xuyUbSK3nzuWgxz/0ggt xt/cn+O01WAVDYk7U2R+Sfmog2RYrXFaJJb3bTszJiRhXR5xfMFSuNT6FFjwDHL6zqGM ncT09m4J6FGRopyGVHpnVBxp1oUH1Bkr8rGeE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=dagl9ZFWd732PGKEp89lLYk5PKI2Odb4Op6zXTpmgBK1d66Ha3BtDUhBhTcMSJdk1D Cl+/s4AQuLOOKOqyFOH1BAfhZ3ZlM4NLTsL0JmZPTBetLvV9NUjN8yFiMv7SMrZFB6Zi wUKXQgud47fKfpO5kZPpUKHmJnXHjRBCl95p8= Received: by 10.91.160.33 with SMTP id m33mr370639ago.54.1269875413885; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 08:10:13 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.204.6.87 with SMTP id 23ls4800157bky.0.p; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 08:10:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.156.208 with SMTP id y16mr307433bkw.14.1269875410739; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 08:10:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.156.208 with SMTP id y16mr307432bkw.14.1269875410671; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 08:10:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ww0-f54.google.com (mail-ww0-f54.google.com [74.125.82.54]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id a10si5243225bkc.1.2010.03.29.08.10.09; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 08:10:09 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.54 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.82.54; Received: by wwb24 with SMTP id 24so1457685wwb.27 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 08:10:09 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.2.209 with HTTP; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 08:10:09 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <44AE9DF1-8DD8-4134-895C-054AA27AE1EC@gmail.com> References: <2320FCB7-86FE-4E30-9F24-DAD6E40024D7@evertype.com> <925d17561003280714y30d5eb1fo19b9f97eb6902eaa@mail.gmail.com> <5BD9338A-1033-49E9-9A75-49046469DE95@gmail.com> <702226df1003290731i3cbaeb3fs9db2d49a667273b1@mail.gmail.com> <44AE9DF1-8DD8-4134-895C-054AA27AE1EC@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 09:10:09 -0600 Received: by 10.216.164.132 with SMTP id c4mr3386856wel.15.1269875409315; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 08:10:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <702226df1003290810r9685560v7ef251bdfb421911@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [lojban] la .alis. From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.54 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/62f96e395a91e500 X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/ef8093cf68557ca1 Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016367b5f20ae67370482f1e8b3 --0016367b5f20ae67370482f1e8b3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 8:55 AM, Michael Everson wrote: > On 29 Mar 2010, at 15:31, Jonathan Jones wrote: > > > On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 2:58 AM, Michael Everson < > michael.everson@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >>> You want to use Gothic letters and what-not, fine. You want to use > special fonts, fine. Just don't mess with the standard Lojban typographic > conventions and we've got no problems. > >> > >> Except that the book is then a whole mess of lower-case letters with no > punctuation. > > > > Lojban is written in lower-case letters with no punctuation. I don't see > a problem. > > OK. Fine. My goal is to treat Lojban not like an oddball, but as a full > citizen of the community of languages which enjoy fine Latin typography. > Perhaps you do not see this as an interesting or valuable goal, but it is > nevertheless the goal which I have. > > I don't see Lojban as being a member of the community of languages that use Latin typography. I don't see Lojban written in Cyrillic script as a member of the community of languages that use Cyrillic typography. I don't see Lojban written in Tengwar script as being a member of the community of languages that use Tengwar typography. I see Lojban as being of member of the community of languages that use Lojban typography, and happens to use Latin characters as it's official orthography. I see Lojban typography (, and bny extension, Loglan typography,) as cousin to the various Asain typographies, which do not have punctuation marks, like Lojban, do not need spaces, like Lojban, have words for what most languages use vocal tones and/or word order to indicate, like Lojban. I do not presume to say the Lojban is the same as Asian languages, I merely point out that Lojban has more similarities, in these matters, with the Asian languages, than with the European ones. > In my view, just pouring a whole mess of lower-case letters with no > punctuation into my Alice template would not result in "fine Latin > typography". > Neither do I. I, unlike you, consider that a good thing. I don't *want* Lojban written with "fine Latin typography". > > Michael > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > > -- mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.a'o.e'e ko klama le bende pe denpa bu -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --0016367b5f20ae67370482f1e8b3 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 8:55 AM, Michael Everson= <michael= .everson@gmail.com> wrote:
On 29 Mar 2010, at 15:31, Jonathan Jones wrote:

> On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 2:58 AM, Michael Everson <michael.everson@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> You want to use Gothic letters and wha= t-not, fine. You want to use special fonts, fine. Just don't mess with = the standard Lojban typographic conventions and we've got no problems.<= br> >>
>> Except that the book is then a whole mess of lower-case letters wi= th no punctuation.
>
> Lojban is written in lower-case letters with no punctuation. I don'= ;t see a problem.

OK. Fine. My goal is to treat Lojban not like an oddball, but as a fu= ll citizen of the community of languages which enjoy fine Latin typography.= Perhaps you do not see this as an interesting or valuable goal, but it is = nevertheless the goal which I have.

I don't see Lojban as being a member of the commu= nity of languages that use Latin typography. I don't see Lojban written= in Cyrillic script as a member of the community of languages that use Cyri= llic typography. I don't see Lojban written in Tengwar script as being = a member of the community of languages that use Tengwar typography.

I see Lojban as being of member of the community of lan= guages that use Lojban typography, and happens to use Latin characters as i= t's official orthography. I see Lojban typography (, and bny extension,= Loglan typography,) as cousin to the various Asain typographies, which do = not have punctuation marks, like Lojban, do not need spaces, like Lojban, h= ave words for what most languages use vocal tones and/or word order to indi= cate, like Lojban. I do not presume to say the Lojban is the same as Asian = languages, I merely point out that Lojban has more similarities, in these m= atters, with the Asian languages, than with the European ones.
=A0
In my view, just pouring a whole mess of lower-case letters with no punctua= tion into my Alice template would not result in "fine Latin typography= ".

Neither do I. I, unlike you, co= nsider that a good thing. I don't want=A0Lojban written with &qu= ot;fine Latin typography".=A0

Michael

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--
mu'o mi= 'e .aionys.

.i.a'o.e'e ko klama le bende pe denpa bu
=

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