From 3RMOwSwcJBgQi2isrywkqemp.gsqpsnferksskpikvsytw.gsq@groups.bounces.google.com Mon Mar 29 08:12:31 2010 Received: from mail-yx0-f141.google.com ([209.85.210.141]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <3RMOwSwcJBgQi2isrywkqemp.gsqpsnferksskpikvsytw.gsq@groups.bounces.google.com>) id 1NwGde-00024P-Fd for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 08:12:31 -0700 Received: by yxe5 with SMTP id 5sf406252yxe.2 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 08:12:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:in-reply-to :references:date:received:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=rzX2z+uqAyD+m4hE9RbKTd/E5GaqmsT9qgykIV59w8E=; b=gjx9SU8za+ssKCKB0y0y9JjSjfvHN4uE3o8t18u9XKbLU9Mw0PobEtlZY+Nd4iMa27 L59JZtk3wkCJapF2Vm+3VHd5Sq/aNqY/7hLive8q1a3vSJfeiT3ODXUkhm8vjD6y8z+5 YfgA2WL5ratGQlu+fNUAebFD4IdgRVzmPNpuA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=aboKIRMHpaDQ84KiSD0GROf2kPChj0qFOtQre0Baz6lXmzkYy4TrziY/GpxhC6BVTy n7f24XKXTSZOrmCo8V99h8WqqdP+HXuV6WMfCqUwvBkaD0VTh+bbQCZpqiWzqw/g1hMA cjTnkSTd1NGzSEVl/4kTxIR+FoQPYxtio0AB0= Received: by 10.150.173.16 with SMTP id v16mr50344ybe.12.1269875524760; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 08:12:04 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.204.6.87 with SMTP id 23ls4801094bky.0.p; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 08:12:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.127.4 with SMTP id e4mr336433bks.29.1269875522349; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 08:12:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.127.4 with SMTP id e4mr336432bks.29.1269875522300; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 08:12:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ww0-f41.google.com (mail-ww0-f41.google.com [74.125.82.41]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id e24si5238930bke.6.2010.03.29.08.12.01; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 08:12:01 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.41 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.82.41; Received: by mail-ww0-f41.google.com with SMTP id 17so499174wwb.14 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 08:12:01 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.2.209 with HTTP; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 08:12:00 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <702226df1003290810r9685560v7ef251bdfb421911@mail.gmail.com> References: <2320FCB7-86FE-4E30-9F24-DAD6E40024D7@evertype.com> <925d17561003280714y30d5eb1fo19b9f97eb6902eaa@mail.gmail.com> <5BD9338A-1033-49E9-9A75-49046469DE95@gmail.com> <702226df1003290731i3cbaeb3fs9db2d49a667273b1@mail.gmail.com> <44AE9DF1-8DD8-4134-895C-054AA27AE1EC@gmail.com> <702226df1003290810r9685560v7ef251bdfb421911@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 09:12:00 -0600 Received: by 10.216.161.82 with SMTP id v60mr3244941wek.42.1269875521041; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 08:12:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <702226df1003290812w6775a0f1lb52fc7e054088097@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [lojban] la .alis. From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.41 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/62f96e395a91e500 X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/e271b37564c5192c Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e64c16dc5736410482f1ef77 --0016e64c16dc5736410482f1ef77 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 9:10 AM, Jonathan Jones wrote: > On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 8:55 AM, Michael Everson < > michael.everson@gmail.com> wrote: > >> On 29 Mar 2010, at 15:31, Jonathan Jones wrote: >> >> > On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 2:58 AM, Michael Everson < >> michael.everson@gmail.com> wrote: >> > >> >>> You want to use Gothic letters and what-not, fine. You want to use >> special fonts, fine. Just don't mess with the standard Lojban typographic >> conventions and we've got no problems. >> >> >> >> Except that the book is then a whole mess of lower-case letters with no >> punctuation. >> > >> > Lojban is written in lower-case letters with no punctuation. I don't see >> a problem. >> >> OK. Fine. My goal is to treat Lojban not like an oddball, but as a full >> citizen of the community of languages which enjoy fine Latin typography. >> Perhaps you do not see this as an interesting or valuable goal, but it is >> nevertheless the goal which I have. >> >> I don't see Lojban as being a member of the community of languages that > use Latin typography. I don't see Lojban written in Cyrillic script as a > member of the community of languages that use Cyrillic typography. I don't > see Lojban written in Tengwar script as being a member of the community of > languages that use Tengwar typography. > > I see Lojban as being of member of the community of languages that use > Lojban typography, and happens to use Latin characters as it's official > orthography. I see Lojban typography (, and bny extension, Loglan > typography,) as cousin to the various Asain typographies, which do not have > punctuation marks, like Lojban, do not need spaces, like Lojban, have words > for what most languages use vocal tones and/or word order to indicate, like > Lojban. I do not presume to say the Lojban is the same as Asian languages, I > merely point out that Lojban has more similarities, in these matters, with > the Asian languages, than with the European ones. > > >> In my view, just pouring a whole mess of lower-case letters with no >> punctuation into my Alice template would not result in "fine Latin >> typography". >> > > Neither do I. I, unlike you, consider that a good thing. I don't *want* Lojban > written with "fine Latin typography". > To clarify: I want Lojban written with fine *Lojban* typography. > >> Michael >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "lojban" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com >> . >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. >> >> > > > -- > mu'o mi'e .aionys. > > .i.a'o.e'e ko klama le bende pe denpa bu > > -- mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.a'o.e'e ko klama le bende pe denpa bu -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --0016e64c16dc5736410482f1ef77 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 9:10 AM, Jonatha= n Jones <eyeonus@= gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 8:55 A= M, Michael Everson <michael.everson@gmail.com> wrote= :
On 29 Mar 2010, at 15:31, Jonathan Jones wrote:

> On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 2:58 AM, Michael Everson <michael.everson@gmail.com= > wrote:
>
>>> You want to use Gothic letters and what-not, fine. = You want to use special fonts, fine. Just don't mess with the standard = Lojban typographic conventions and we've got no problems.
>>
>> Except that the book is then a whole mess of lower-case letters wi= th no punctuation.
>
> Lojban is written in lower-case letters with no punctuation. I don'= ;t see a problem.

OK. Fine. My goal is to treat Lojban not like an oddball, but as a fu= ll citizen of the community of languages which enjoy fine Latin typography.= Perhaps you do not see this as an interesting or valuable goal, but it is = nevertheless the goal which I have.

I don't see Lojban as being a member of the= community of languages that use Latin typography. I don't see Lojban w= ritten in Cyrillic script as a member of the community of languages that us= e Cyrillic typography. I don't see Lojban written in Tengwar script as = being a member of the community of languages that use Tengwar typography.

I see Lojban as being of member of the community of lan= guages that use Lojban typography, and happens to use Latin characters as i= t's official orthography. I see Lojban typography (, and bny extension,= Loglan typography,) as cousin to the various Asain typographies, which do = not have punctuation marks, like Lojban, do not need spaces, like Lojban, h= ave words for what most languages use vocal tones and/or word order to indi= cate, like Lojban. I do not presume to say the Lojban is the same as Asian = languages, I merely point out that Lojban has more similarities, in these m= atters, with the Asian languages, than with the European ones.
=A0
In my view, just pouring a whole mess of lower-case letters with no punctua= tion into my Alice template would not result in "fine Latin typography= ".

Neither do I. I, unlike y= ou, consider that a good thing. I don't want=A0Lojban written wi= th "fine Latin typography".=A0

To clarify: I want Lojban written wi= th fine Lojban=A0typography.=A0

Michael

--
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For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojba= n?hl=3Den.



=

--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.a'o.e= 'e ko klama le bende pe denpa bu




--
mu'o mi= 'e .aionys.

.i.a'o.e'e ko klama le bende pe denpa bu
=

--
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