From 3ENuwSwcJBucNhNXWdbPVJRU.LXVUXSKJWPXXPUNPaXdYb.LXV@groups.bounces.google.com Mon Mar 29 09:54:17 2010 Received: from mail-gw0-f61.google.com ([74.125.83.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <3ENuwSwcJBucNhNXWdbPVJRU.LXVUXSKJWPXXPUNPaXdYb.LXV@groups.bounces.google.com>) id 1NwIDu-0001jQ-1u for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 09:54:15 -0700 Received: by gwb1 with SMTP id 1sf8870975gwb.16 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 09:53:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:in-reply-to :references:date:received:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=Gia9VPx24hT2rCrGc0n1yJ+7RYIY6lHWYLEULroRhbQ=; b=yfYuyB16UTLmKhBKyGVV5SFz0jKtaqDWEJskM8/7vnUJzoOqeO68Vow+1xjHXUJbEh m9cM4tbEnX5KIWgeCIg218b4OOoNUjUIL4VLJvUTjbw2y4BE3gnqRW4nHsb30xadB1Bg KXcixBQClzzzm/lQnsdKc/49/6ZxJXFGltijI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=lGZ6GhknT677K6JsfeFRsjiZLkFnLKgkB2EE0vUHOQm9Km0lEgY8ysbeZT/2DPZQuH zSd/o9XeSiU/qJfZgdZSDoI7O47Zdzmg1fg9br91Fl1DjPABQTdHpgejx+8L+CId/MOL NLxdBv5Xg8A5fPvMCed5Yw2p8M2POZRfhmuRQ= Received: by 10.91.160.33 with SMTP id m33mr384086ago.54.1269881616840; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 09:53:36 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.204.32.206 with SMTP id e14ls4843726bkd.2.p; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 09:53:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.36.198 with SMTP id u6mr338494bkd.15.1269881611581; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 09:53:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.36.198 with SMTP id u6mr338493bkd.15.1269881611544; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 09:53:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ww0-f44.google.com (mail-ww0-f44.google.com [74.125.82.44]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id a12si5347311bkb.4.2010.03.29.09.53.30; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 09:53:30 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.44 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.82.44; Received: by wwb31 with SMTP id 31so1124061wwb.17 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 09:53:30 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.2.209 with HTTP; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 09:53:29 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20100329143528.GA3085@sdf.lonestar.org> References: <702226df1003290711v11a9e957h537d99b637f40414@mail.gmail.com> <20100329143528.GA3085@sdf.lonestar.org> Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 10:53:29 -0600 Received: by 10.216.85.78 with SMTP id t56mr3199578wee.223.1269881610069; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 09:53:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <702226df1003290953j22b0fc4dg3e9ffc1460b88882@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: Lojban: You're Doing it Worng (was: Re: [lojban] la .alis.) From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.44 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/ae71ea92dbbfd5b1 X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/973fc0a17a6ca9ca Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6d9a3214668c90482f35a43 --0016e6d9a3214668c90482f35a43 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 8:35 AM, Minimiscience wrote: > de'i li 29 pi'e 03 pi'e 2010 la'o fy. Jonathan Jones .fy. cusku zoi > skamyxatra. > > I move that we vote to correct minli as per goal #1 (internal > consistency) of > > Robin's proposal. > .skamyxatra > > I don't think you have the authority to overthrow the current authority. > > Never said I did. However, assuming Robin's proposal is accepted, based on my reading of it, all jbopre is considered a member of the BPFK. As such, I am not trying to overthrow the current authority, but merely doing my part to get the job done. In any case, you didn't cast your vote on the issue. Are you abstaining? > > And, continuing in the spirit of the proposal, does anyone else have an > > issue they feel needs to be addressed? > > The keyword of "{jegvo}" should be "Abrahamic," not "Jehovist"; I used "Judeo-Christian" for that gismu on the Smart.fm lesson. > "{ta'u}" doesn't seem to serve any purpose; It does to me, but not a very useful one. What do you think should be done about it? > "{ti'o}" will likely never be specified and, even if it is, really won't be > different enough from "{sei}" to warrant a separate {cmavo}; So I take it you'd like to call a vote to remove ti'o as a cmavo? > there are too many cultural {gismu}; I admit there are many cultural gismu, but there are also many cultures. If anything, I think there aren't enough, as not all cultures have a gismu. Regardless, which cultural gismu do you think are excessive, why do you think this, and what would you like done about it? > the measurement words can be cut down to half by making them > system-independent and adding a {gismu} for "metric"; and I seem to have > misplaced my full list of complaints. > That's not a bad idea. It makes logical sense. Let's take a look at the involved measurement gismu. kramu x1 is x2 non-metric area units in standard x3 with subunits x4 (no metric gismu? - metric area is (C)m^2) minli x1 is x2 non-metric long distance units with subunits x3 in standard x4 gutci x1 is x2 non-metric short distance units in standard x3 with subunits x4 mitre x1 is x2 meters in direction x3 by standard x4 dekpu x1 is x2 non-metric volume units in standard x3 with subunits x4 litce x1 is x2 liters by standard x3 bunda x1 is x2 non-metric weight units in standard x3 with subunits x4 (no metric gismu - metric weight is Newtons) (no non-metric gismu - non-metric mass is (?)) grake x1 is x2 grams by standard x3 Only 3 of the non-metric gismu overlap with the metric gismu. I say leave it alone, for reason of RP#4, and because of the 10^n gismu such as kilto. A kilometer in Lojban is a {kilto mitre} or {ki'omitre} (my preffered form), or {ki'otre}. Assuming {mitre} was kept and, say {metri} was created to mean "x1 is metric measurement", then kilometer would become {kilto metri mitre}, {ki'ometrmitre}, or {ki'ometrtre}. And since only metric uses powers of ten, it just makes metric- likely the most used system- more ungainly, and the- likely much less used- non-metric systems wouldn't get any benefit as compromise. > mu'omi'e .kamymecraijun. > > -- > no zo mi nenri zo bende > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > > -- mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.a'o.e'e ko klama le bende pe denpa bu -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --0016e6d9a3214668c90482f35a43 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 8:35 AM, Minimiscience <= span dir=3D"ltr"><minimiscien= ce@gmail.com> wrote:
de'i li 29 pi'e 03 pi= 9;e 2010 la'o fy. Jonathan Jones .fy. cusku zoi skamyxatra.
> I move that we vote to correct minli as per goal #1 = (internal consistency) of
> Robin's proposal.
.skamyxatr= a

I don't think you have the authority to overthrow the current = authority.
=A0
Never said I did. However,=A0assuming Robin's proposal is accepted= , based on my reading of it, all jbopre is considered a member of the BPFK.= As such, I am not trying to overthrow the current authority, but merely do= ing my part to get the job done.
=A0
In any case, you didn't cast your vote on the issue. Are you absta= ining?
> And, continuing in the spirit of the proposal, does = anyone else have an
> issue they feel needs to be addressed?

<= /div>The keyword of "{jegvo}" should be "Abrahamic," no= t "Jehovist";
=A0
I used "Judeo-Christian" for that gismu on the Smart.fm less= on.
=A0
"{ta'u}" doesn'= ;t seem to serve any purpose;
=A0
It does to me, but not a very useful one. What do you think should be = done about it?
=A0
"{ti'o}" will like= ly never be specified and, even if it is, really won't be different eno= ugh from "{sei}" to warrant a separate {cmavo};
=A0
So I take it you'd like to call a vote to remove ti'o as a cma= vo?
=A0
there are too many cultural {gis= mu};
=A0
I admit there are many cultural gismu, but there are also many culture= s. If anything, I think there aren't enough, as not all cultures have a= gismu. Regardless, which cultural gismu do you think are excessive, why do= you think this, and what would you like done about it?
=A0
the measurement words can be cut= down to half by making them system-independent and adding a {gismu} for &q= uot;metric"; and I seem to have misplaced my full list of complaints.<= br>
That's not a bad idea. It makes logical sense. Let's take a lo= ok at the involved measurement gismu.
=A0
kramu=A0x1 is x2 non-metric area units in standard x3 with subunits x4=
(no metric gismu? - metric area is (C)m^2)
=A0
minli=A0x1 is x2 non-metric long distance units with subunits x3 in st= andard x4
gutci=A0x1 is x2 non-metric short distance units in standard x= 3 with subunits x4
mitre=A0x1 is x2 meters in direction x3 by standard x= 4
dekpu=A0x1 is x2 non-metric volume units in standard x3 with subunits = x4
litce=A0x1 is x2 liters by standard x3
bunda=A0x1 is x2 non-metric weight units in standard x3 with subunits = x4
(no metric gismu - metric weight is Newtons)
=A0
(no non-metric=A0gismu - non-metric mass is (?))
grake=A0x1 is x2 grams by standard x3
=A0
Only 3 of the non-metric gismu overlap with the metric gismu. I say le= ave it alone, for reason of RP#4, and because of the 10^n gismu such as kil= to. A kilometer in Lojban is a {kilto mitre}=A0or {ki'omitre} (my preff= ered form), or {ki'otre}. Assuming {mitre} was kept and, say {metri} wa= s created to mean "x1 is metric measurement", then kilometer woul= d become {kilto metri mitre}, {ki'ometrmitre}, or {ki'ometrtre}.=A0= And since only metric uses powers of ten, it just makes metric- likely the = most used system- more ungainly, and the- likely much less used- non-metric= systems wouldn't get any benefit as compromise.
mu'omi'e .kamymecraijun.=

--
no zo mi nenri zo bende

--
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-= -
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.a'o.e'e ko klama le bende pe d= enpa bu

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