From 3StywSwcJBiMDXDNMTRFL9HK.BNLKNIA9MFNNFKDFQNTOR.BNL@groups.bounces.google.com Mon Mar 29 09:59:38 2010 Received: from mail-gx0-f198.google.com ([209.85.217.198]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <3StywSwcJBiMDXDNMTRFL9HK.BNLKNIA9MFNNFKDFQNTOR.BNL@groups.bounces.google.com>) id 1NwIIz-000222-O8 for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 09:59:35 -0700 Received: by gxk22 with SMTP id 22sf18653774gxk.4 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 09:59:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:in-reply-to :references:date:received:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=df35WipxeY47HilOUt2UIdmqNpgobeHsBG+y3KVh7B4=; b=Y0BFJOo2dPy9pb9q1k2joE1nmUUHN0pFh7TQJhASzftus3gX1dfio07GK0MdTUYqVW 8bN7biQ7onz0EJwSu/sL1myRrMkT6zya8BKyXH8xEdYUgSk7AJxFK79prtHTyxz0KXmm a/3/TM2aY+qXwrZZ8Vq7rbzbZdyYyZ3s0Fhr0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=AV6IlubGFcz1kVpRBp/8i7L400WoNULrd5his8W46o9jb3rQOsh6KbGGEvpOJ58omd wXBEus+PKmpdebvrIjcM2PbYkuC3stezs9iEx/2vGge9zJCtFu2UDzXQvRoRLtdqqcD/ H4z2zO4PrJmBULKrvyvd1KTjOuyPBWnmGOep8= Received: by 10.150.188.6 with SMTP id l6mr282406ybf.37.1269881930755; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 09:58:50 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.204.5.195 with SMTP id 3ls4849527bkw.3.p; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 09:58:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.163.19 with SMTP id y19mr342544bkx.2.1269881925720; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 09:58:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.163.19 with SMTP id y19mr342543bkx.2.1269881925560; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 09:58:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wy0-f179.google.com (mail-wy0-f179.google.com [74.125.82.179]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id a10si5354987bkc.1.2010.03.29.09.58.44; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 09:58:44 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.179 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.82.179; Received: by wyi11 with SMTP id 11so1101944wyi.24 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 09:58:44 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.2.209 with HTTP; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 09:58:43 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <702226df1003290953j22b0fc4dg3e9ffc1460b88882@mail.gmail.com> References: <702226df1003290711v11a9e957h537d99b637f40414@mail.gmail.com> <20100329143528.GA3085@sdf.lonestar.org> <702226df1003290953j22b0fc4dg3e9ffc1460b88882@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 10:58:43 -0600 Received: by 10.216.187.148 with SMTP id y20mr3186339wem.88.1269881924171; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 09:58:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <702226df1003290958u26c43df9l8076f63479feefde@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: Lojban: You're Doing it Worng (was: Re: [lojban] la .alis.) From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.179 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/ae71ea92dbbfd5b1 X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/15ea07919d6bd9ec Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636833958ff468c0482f36cea --001636833958ff468c0482f36cea Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 10:53 AM, Jonathan Jones wrote: > > > On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 8:35 AM, Minimiscience wrote: > >> de'i li 29 pi'e 03 pi'e 2010 la'o fy. Jonathan Jones .fy. cusku zoi >> skamyxatra. >> > I move that we vote to correct minli as per goal #1 (internal >> consistency) of >> > Robin's proposal. >> .skamyxatra >> >> I don't think you have the authority to overthrow the current authority. >> >> > Never said I did. However, assuming Robin's proposal is accepted, based on > my reading of it, all jbopre is considered a member of the BPFK. As such, I > am not trying to overthrow the current authority, but merely doing my part > to get the job done. > > In any case, you didn't cast your vote on the issue. Are you abstaining? > >> > And, continuing in the spirit of the proposal, does anyone else have an >> > issue they feel needs to be addressed? >> >> The keyword of "{jegvo}" should be "Abrahamic," not "Jehovist"; > > > I used "Judeo-Christian" for that gismu on the Smart.fm lesson. > > >> "{ta'u}" doesn't seem to serve any purpose; > > > It does to me, but not a very useful one. What do you think should be done > about it? > > >> "{ti'o}" will likely never be specified and, even if it is, really won't >> be different enough from "{sei}" to warrant a separate {cmavo}; > > > So I take it you'd like to call a vote to remove ti'o as a cmavo? > > >> there are too many cultural {gismu}; > > > I admit there are many cultural gismu, but there are also many cultures. If > anything, I think there aren't enough, as not all cultures have a gismu. > Regardless, which cultural gismu do you think are excessive, why do you > think this, and what would you like done about it? > > >> the measurement words can be cut down to half by making them >> system-independent and adding a {gismu} for "metric"; and I seem to have >> misplaced my full list of complaints. >> > That's not a bad idea. It makes logical sense. Let's take a look at the > involved measurement gismu. > > kramu x1 is x2 non-metric area units in standard x3 with subunits x4 > (no metric gismu? - metric area is (C)m^2) > > minli x1 is x2 non-metric long distance units with subunits x3 in > standard x4 > gutci x1 is x2 non-metric short distance units in standard x3 with subunits > x4 > mitre x1 is x2 meters in direction x3 by standard x4 > dekpu x1 is x2 non-metric volume units in standard x3 with subunits x4 > litce x1 is x2 liters by standard x3 > bunda x1 is x2 non-metric weight units in standard x3 with subunits x4 > (no metric gismu - metric weight is Newtons) > > (no non-metric gismu - non-metric mass is (?)) > grake x1 is x2 grams by standard x3 > > Only 3 of the non-metric gismu overlap with the metric gismu. I say leave > it alone, for reason of RP#4, and because of the 10^n gismu such as kilto. A > kilometer in Lojban is a {kilto mitre} or {ki'omitre} (my preffered form), > or {ki'otre}. Assuming {mitre} was kept and, say {metri} was created to mean > "x1 is metric measurement", then kilometer would become {kilto metri mitre}, > {ki'ometrmitre}, or {ki'ometrtre}. And since only metric uses powers of ten, > it just makes metric- likely the most used system- more ungainly, and the- > likely much less used- non-metric systems wouldn't get any benefit as > compromise. > If anything, I'd rather go the other way, and get rid of the NON-metric measurements, and create a gismu meaning "x1 is non-metric or local measurement." > mu'omi'e .kamymecraijun. >> >> -- >> no zo mi nenri zo bende >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "lojban" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com >> . >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. >> >> > > > -- > mu'o mi'e .aionys. > > .i.a'o.e'e ko klama le bende pe denpa bu > > -- mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.a'o.e'e ko klama le bende pe denpa bu -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --001636833958ff468c0482f36cea Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 10:53 AM, Jonathan Jones= <eyeonus@gmail.c= om> wrote:


On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 8:35 AM, Minimiscience <m= inimiscience@gmail.com> wrote:
de'i li 29 pi'e 03 pi= 9;e 2010 la'o fy. Jonathan Jones .fy. cusku zoi skamyxatra.
> I move that we vote to correct minli as per goal #1 (internal con= sistency) of
> Robin's proposal.
.skamyxatra

I do= n't think you have the authority to overthrow the current authority.
=A0
Never said I did. However,=A0assuming Robin's proposal is accepted= , based on my reading of it, all jbopre is considered a member of the BPFK.= As such, I am not trying to overthrow the current authority, but merely do= ing my part to get the job done.
=A0
In any case, you didn't cast your vote on the issue. Are you absta= ining?
> And, continuing in the spirit of the proposal, does anyone else h= ave an
> issue they feel needs to be addressed?

The keyw= ord of "{jegvo}" should be "Abrahamic," not "Jehov= ist";
=A0
I used "Judeo-Christian" for that gismu on the Smart.fm less= on.
=A0
"{ta'u}" doesn'= ;t seem to serve any purpose;
=A0
It does to me, but not a very useful one. What do you think should be = done about it?
=A0
"{ti'o}" will like= ly never be specified and, even if it is, really won't be different eno= ugh from "{sei}" to warrant a separate {cmavo};
=A0
So I take it you'd like to call a vote to remove ti'o as a cma= vo?
=A0
there are too many cultural {gis= mu};
=A0
I admit there are many cultural gismu, but there are also many culture= s. If anything, I think there aren't enough, as not all cultures have a= gismu. Regardless, which cultural gismu do you think are excessive, why do= you think this, and what would you like done about it?
=A0
the measurement words can be cut= down to half by making them system-independent and adding a {gismu} for &q= uot;metric"; and I seem to have misplaced my full list of complaints.<= br>
That's not a bad idea. It makes logical sense. Let's take a lo= ok at the involved measurement gismu.
=A0
kramu=A0x1 is x2 non-metric area units in standard x3 wit= h subunits x4
(no metric gismu? - metric area is (C)m^2)
=A0
minli=A0x1 is x2 non-metric long distance units with subu= nits x3 in standard x4
gutci=A0x1 is x2 non-metric short distance units in stand= ard x3 with subunits x4
mitre=A0x1 is x2 meters in direction x3 by= standard x4
dekpu=A0x1 is x2 non-metric volume units in standard x3 w= ith subunits x4
litce=A0x1 is x2 liters by standard x3
bunda=A0x1 is x2 non-metric weight units in standard x3 w= ith subunits x4
(no metric gismu - metric weight is Newtons)
=A0
(no non-metric=A0gismu - non-metric mass is (?))
grake=A0x1 is x2 grams by standard x3
=A0
Only 3 of the non-metric gismu overlap with the metric gismu. I say le= ave it alone, for reason of RP#4, and because of the 10^n gismu such as kil= to. A kilometer in Lojban is a {kilto mitre}=A0or {ki'omitre} (my preff= ered form), or {ki'otre}. Assuming {mitre} was kept and, say {metri} wa= s created to mean "x1 is metric measurement", then kilometer woul= d become {kilto metri mitre}, {ki'ometrmitre}, or {ki'ometrtre}.=A0= And since only metric uses powers of ten, it just makes metric- likely the = most used system- more ungainly, and the- likely much less used- non-metric= systems wouldn't get any benefit as compromise.
=A0
If anything, I'd rather go the other way, and get rid of the NON-m= etric measurements, and create a gismu meaning "x1 is non-metric or lo= cal measurement."
=A0
mu'omi'e .kamymecraijun.=

--
no zo mi nenri zo bende

--
= You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from = this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojba= n?hl=3Den.




--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.a'o.e'e ko k= lama le bende pe denpa bu




--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.a'o.e'e = ko klama le bende pe denpa bu

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.
--001636833958ff468c0482f36cea--