From 3ZdywSwoJBj4qjtx.rtqfxlrfnq.htrqtogfslttlqjlwtzux.htr@groups.bounces.google.com Mon Mar 29 09:59:54 2010 Received: from mail-qy0-f139.google.com ([209.85.221.139]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <3ZdywSwoJBj4qjtx.rtqfxlrfnq.htrqtogfslttlqjlwtzux.htr@groups.bounces.google.com>) id 1NwIJQ-00024R-6q for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 09:59:51 -0700 Received: by qyk4 with SMTP id 4sf18631157qyk.27 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 09:59:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received:received-spf:received:received:received :message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:x-enigmail-version:content-type :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=Do1fE5ax0N6YenVM2hFuMcDDirIcXwg7uCsAPljN2Rs=; b=Hhxr6pUb7XeYNqpESUohINFIjJZHWnItwg7z8biDJ73qZMcU8RqcHZvGVlrT6t8KWY Rx0FmSwTUyc0rBTrqddArBkOoS7vaYo5mi95rPnj61xMjQF0MiejV3LA89Ukx35Rqycg aoCbXu1GPqkE+qs9ebGWTtjQGLJyFrF+0IWKQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:message-id:date:from:user-agent :mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:x-enigmail-version :content-type:x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help :list-archive:x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe; b=dIUaqIbs4SbbLaDbruTasMF2cUUeHFbOx8pFBTn/ME/svK1hVAxIIbiidxoU4qTa7v kTCLqz1T6/Leih5pxYwbXQ5pVkODGI3Hu9SIWpVF0Fvue1Fubwb8iK+MwgmGSkOt/cEH 0bFLNf3826bhealQC1furzh4M/9xLBtpxW9JI= Received: by 10.224.39.14 with SMTP id d14mr27324qae.10.1269881957955; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 09:59:17 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.224.38.138 with SMTP id b10ls5229704qae.4.p; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 09:59:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.224.66.153 with SMTP id n25mr647896qai.2.1269881952804; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 09:59:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.227.10 with SMTP id iy10mr332143qcb.24.1269880032280; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 09:27:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.227.10 with SMTP id iy10mr332142qcb.24.1269880032255; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 09:27:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vw0-f50.google.com (mail-vw0-f50.google.com [209.85.212.50]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 24si533058qyk.14.2010.03.29.09.27.11; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 09:27:11 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of leos.molas@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.50 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.212.50; Received: by mail-vw0-f50.google.com with SMTP id 5so764478vws.9 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 09:27:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.128.22 with SMTP id i22mr3178442vcs.140.1269880031036; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 09:27:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([190.97.37.224]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 28sm99229503vws.6.2010.03.29.09.27.09 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Mon, 29 Mar 2010 09:27:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4BB0D4DF.2070501@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 13:27:11 -0300 From: Leo Molas User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; es-AR; rv:1.9.1.8) Gecko/20100227 Thunderbird/3.0.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] la .alis. References: <2320FCB7-86FE-4E30-9F24-DAD6E40024D7@evertype.com> <925d17561003280714y30d5eb1fo19b9f97eb6902eaa@mail.gmail.com> <5BD9338A-1033-49E9-9A75-49046469DE95@gmail.com> <702226df1003290731i3cbaeb3fs9db2d49a667273b1@mail.gmail.com> <44AE9DF1-8DD8-4134-895C-054AA27AE1EC@gmail.com> <702226df1003290810r9685560v7ef251bdfb421911@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <702226df1003290810r9685560v7ef251bdfb421911@mail.gmail.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.0.1 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enig53B822061FF4C64FE5FDDAC8" X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of leos.molas@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.50 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=leos.molas@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: leos.molas@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/62f96e395a91e500 X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/7c3d2c340f85a4d7 Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enig53B822061FF4C64FE5FDDAC8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable El 29/03/2010 12:10 p.m., Jonathan Jones escribi=F3: > On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 8:55 AM, Michael Everson > > wrote: >=20 > On 29 Mar 2010, at 15:31, Jonathan Jones wrote: >=20 > > On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 2:58 AM, Michael Everson > > wrot= e: > > > >>> You want to use Gothic letters and what-not, fine. You want to > use special fonts, fine. Just don't mess with the standard Lojban > typographic conventions and we've got no problems. > >> > >> Except that the book is then a whole mess of lower-case letters > with no punctuation. > > > > Lojban is written in lower-case letters with no punctuation. I > don't see a problem. >=20 > OK. Fine. My goal is to treat Lojban not like an oddball, but as a > full citizen of the community of languages which enjoy fine Latin > typography. Perhaps you do not see this as an interesting or > valuable goal, but it is nevertheless the goal which I have. >=20 > I don't see Lojban as being a member of the community of languages that= > use Latin typography. I don't see Lojban written in Cyrillic script as = a > member of the community of languages that use Cyrillic typography. I > don't see Lojban written in Tengwar script as being a member of the > community of languages that use Tengwar typography. >=20 > I see Lojban as being of member of the community of languages that use > Lojban typography, and happens to use Latin characters as it's official= > orthography. I see Lojban typography (, and bny extension, Loglan > typography,) as cousin to the various Asain typographies, which do not > have punctuation marks, like Lojban, do not need spaces, like Lojban, > have words for what most languages use vocal tones and/or word order to= > indicate, like Lojban. I do not presume to say the Lojban is the same a= s > Asian languages, I merely point out that Lojban has more similarities, > in these matters, with the Asian languages, than with the European ones= =2E > =20 >=20 > In my view, just pouring a whole mess of lower-case letters with no= > punctuation into my Alice template would not result in "fine Latin > typography". >=20 >=20 > Neither do I. I, unlike you, consider that a good thing. I don't > /want/ Lojban written with "fine Latin typography".=20 >=20 >=20 > Michael >=20 > -- > --=20 > mu'o mi'e .aionys. >=20 > .i.a'o.e'e ko klama le bende pe denpa bu >=20 I think this is a good point in all of this. Lojban is not written in Latin typography; Lojban has a typogrphy that uses Latin a part of its alphabet and a part of its punctuation, using it in another way. Lojban uses this alphabet, to be compatible with everyone's keyboard; not with Latin typography. mu'omi'e .leos. --=20 My lojban journal: http://learninglojban.wordpress.com My personal blog: http://leomolas.tumblr.com --------------enig53B822061FF4C64FE5FDDAC8 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJLsNToAAoJEGPqAjdF26uE/pMIAKIvoik2/yHCvsp0blv4JA2O RViUulWw2P6K0yQWIEeJyiYQkfJ6mMhjLep/Yapk4vxHPstI5RlvsCY/t5U8U9uO kgvbo8DiF7/k7DENw7LMJCBQ6SqP4VUb8a/TJ0SJrt9bEuHFp2WVN+JnaN0sewQA ljzjdQCLgarMEuI9UqjLP9XqvOHB34BgPrFQeUXAwzdUxGvQ9RZCo1TvpzkBJ3oR bJHNc/4gb66wQzq1clHE+PFrrKXq72t8ofcUM7MKLEjOS2l7V5H/thNxIFRKWtIS gjKBwJlG9CqLLR7JuberO8cOK0cKF/Z8mnmi/S74iypmX9XqLYlLyw3lzn3GDS0= =q4cu -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enig53B822061FF4C64FE5FDDAC8--