From eyeonus@gmail.com Thu Mar 04 08:50:13 2010 Received: from ey-out-1920.google.com ([74.125.78.144]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1NnEFQ-0000rh-OM for lojban-list@lojban.org; Thu, 04 Mar 2010 08:50:13 -0800 Received: by ey-out-1920.google.com with SMTP id 5so391446eyb.36 for ; Thu, 04 Mar 2010 08:50:03 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=ny9n8oTof0Ml3x8I/c4gaFp/ZFRjsdNd7PErC67auNg=; b=RkDUyd/o/0YcaPh3q09tKqvTpooDJzvOzAUavmW8XvLMAPDo8Z437nN44qPeRnoqnZ AZGtTBXj1YCtPjLT9cQNwKEm6jOYGpk8xbh7JcglbXCvTAC5oB54GnABBlNzlbtnlO6D C037XC0GsL2GMDfzhyrtVBj1eGvFh9UVrfzi0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=EoiQlClp5x2ys2J3GvponwEEJCAZZk+u3aNRfZPLV2ORL1A9NDZblmL7/Sx9KHv17/ CHto5G+XA+F4uvtiHjzxVnGuz+DF5V0k7I5u5/9qjnWWCuQ/x4x04CQTqQBdZOYCz42Q VX/5IbR3nu+cA6LC9FuiWmX7Oub43mAsNRry4= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.90.131 with SMTP id e3mr1450084wef.69.1267721402729; Thu, 04 Mar 2010 08:50:02 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <20100303220721.GX1159@digitalkingdom.org> <702226df1003031457i5f3bafe0w7df2dfa49ad6dc0b@mail.gmail.com> <20100303230307.GA1159@digitalkingdom.org> <702226df1003031510l1c53a9e1yc192b2ffdf99cbeb@mail.gmail.com> <20100303231339.GC1159@digitalkingdom.org> <702226df1003031536n376e5d09r1c817a5d0b67ceb2@mail.gmail.com> <20100304000922.GF1159@digitalkingdom.org> <702226df1003040735j468fb753y13666ab05fb4c612@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 09:50:02 -0700 Message-ID: <702226df1003040850r6815c001g7fcce149a445bbe4@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: More espeak words, please. From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban-list@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6dab171e245f70480fc6376 --0016e6dab171e245f70480fc6376 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Not really, and the list is also a lot more difficult to edit: From oblique keywords: bakri1;chalk bakri2;chalk source bakri3;chalk form cenba1;variable; vary cenba2;varying property cenba3;variance; varying amount cenba4;variance conditions dukse1;excess dukse2;in excess dukse3;excess standard From jbofi'e, with 'any/some', '(' and ')' auto-removed: chalks chalk sources chalk forms vary-ers variant properties degrees of variation excesses in excess things standard for excess They're almost exactly the same, and the ones from jbofi'e don't need have = a '[gismu][#];' to remove. On Thu, Mar 4, 2010 at 9:03 AM, Dag Odenhall wrote= : > Argh, please use the oblique keywords list rather than jbofihe. More > human and natural. > > On Thu, Mar 4, 2010 at 4:35 PM, Jonathan Jones wrote: > > For the gismu definitions, all the extraneous stuff (eg. anything betwe= en > > any braces) to be removed, all '/' replaced with ' or ', and all varian= ts > > removed (eg. "bundle/package/cluster/clump/pack" except for the one or > two > > most common or most different. (so, for example, the word in the third > > and/or fourth column of the gismu list, with {bakfu}, that would be > 'bundle' > > and 'pack', whereas with {balni}, it would be 'balcony' and 'shelf'.) > > However, as Dag pointed out, the gismu definitions already have a > simplified > > form, so I don't think much if anything needs to be done for that. > > For the sumti definitions, for lack of a better way to put it, a > humanized > > grammatical phrase. Some examples: > > sumti jbofi'e phrase Smart.fm definition > > lo bakri any/some chalk(s) a quantity of chalk > > lo se bakri any/some chalk source(s) a source of chalk > > lo te bakri any/some chalk form(s) a form of chalk > > sumti jbofi'e phrase Smart.fm definition > > lo cenba any/some vary-er(s) something varying > > lo se cenba any/some variant property(ies) a property of variance > > lo te cenba any/some degree(s) of variation a degree of variation > > lo ve cenba any/some conditions for variation a condition of varying > > sumti jbofi'e phrase Smart.fm definition > > lo dukse any/some excess(es) an excess > > lo se dukse any/some in excess thing(s) something in excess > > lo te dukse any/some standard for excess a standard of excess > > > > On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 5:09 PM, Robin Lee Powell > > wrote: > >> > >> On Wed, Mar 03, 2010 at 04:36:01PM -0700, Jonathan Jones wrote: > >> > On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 4:13 PM, Robin Lee Powell > >> > <[1]rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org> wrote: > >> > > >> > On Wed, Mar 03, 2010 at 04:10:48PM -0700, Jonathan Jones wrote: > >> > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BDThe list of the items is finished, the def= initions for > >> > Smart.fm are > >> > not. > >> > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BDIn point of fact, there are exactly three = areas that are not > >> > finished- the > >> > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BDaudio for the entries, > >> > > >> > Yep. > >> > > the simplified definitions for Smart.fm for about 70% of the > >> > > items, > >> > > >> > Trivially producable from jbofihe data. =EF=BF=BDI still want s= omeone to > >> > explain to me why we're simplifying them in the first place? > >> > > >> > Oi, I've already said why. The gismu definitions need to be > >> > simplified > >> > because, 1) The definitions from the gismu list are, more often > than > >> > not, > >> > too long for Smart.fm's cards, so they need to be shortened to fi= t, > >> > and 2) > >> > They non-vocal punctuation needs to be edited out. > >> > > >> > For this reason the definition for bakfu, which in the gismu list > is > >> > "x1 > >> > is a bundle/package/cluster/clump/pack [shape/form] containing x2= , > >> > held > >> > together by x3", becomes "x1 is a bundle or pack containing x2 he= ld > >> > together by x3" > >> > >> Again: that can be done well enough for the vast majority of words > >> by a simple script, and then fix the mistakes by hand. > >> > >> I just hate to see people spending human time when machine time > >> would do the job. Tell me what format you want it in, and I'll > >> write something to do what you just did to all the gismu. > >> > >> -Robin > >> > >> -- > >> They say: "The first AIs will be built by the military as weapons." > >> And I'm thinking: "Does it even occur to you to try for something > >> other than the default outcome?" See http://shrunklink.com/cdiz > >> http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/ *** http://www.lojban.org/ > >> > >> > >> To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to > lojban-list-request@lojban.org > >> with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or > if > >> you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help. > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > mu'o mi'e .aionys. > > > > .i.a'o.e'e ko klama le bende pe denpa bu > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.or= g > with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if > you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help. > > --=20 mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.a'o.e'e ko klama le bende pe denpa bu --0016e6dab171e245f70480fc6376 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Not really, and the list is also a lot more difficult to edit:
=C2=A0
From oblique keywords:
bakri1;chalk
bakri2;chalk source
bakri3;chalk form
cenba1;variable; vary
cenba2;varying property
cenba3;variance; v= arying amount
cenba4;variance conditions
dukse1;excess
dukse2;in excess
dukse3;excess standard
From jbofi'e, with 'any/some', '(' and ')'= auto-removed:
chalks
chalk sources
chalk forms
=C2=A0
vary-ers
variant properties
degrees of variation
excesses
in excess things
standard for excess
They're almost exactly the same, and the ones from jbofi'e don= 't need have a '[gismu][#];' to remove.
=C2=A0
On Thu, Mar 4, 2010 at 9:03 AM, Dag Odenhall <dag.odenhall@g= mail.com> wrote:
Argh, please use the oblique key= words list rather than jbofihe. More
human and natural.

On Thu, Mar 4, 2010 at 4:35 PM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:
>= For the gismu definitions, all the extraneous stuff (eg. anything between<= br> > any braces) to be removed, all '/' replaced with ' or '= ;, and all variants
> removed (eg. "bundle/package/cluster/clump= /pack" except for the one or two
> most common or most different= . (so, for example, the word in the third
> and/or fourth column of the gismu list, with {bakfu}, that would be &#= 39;bundle'
> and 'pack', whereas with {balni}, it would b= e 'balcony' and 'shelf'.)
> However, as Dag pointed o= ut, the gismu definitions already have a simplified
> form, so I don't think much if anything needs to be done for that.=
> For the sumti definitions, for lack of a better way to put it, a h= umanized
> grammatical phrase. Some examples:
> sumti jbofi'= ;e phrase Smart.fm definition
> lo bakri any/some chalk(s) a quantity of chalk
> lo se bakri any= /some chalk source(s)=C2=A0 a source of chalk
> lo te bakri any/some = chalk form(s) a form of chalk
> sumti jbofi'e phrase Smart.fm def= inition
> lo cenba any/some vary-er(s) something varying
> lo se cenba=C2= =A0 any/some variant property(ies) a property of variance
> lo te cen= ba any/some degree(s) of variation a degree of variation
> lo ve cenb= a any/some conditions for variation a condition of varying
> sumti jbofi'e phrase Smart.fm definition
> lo dukse any/some= excess(es) an excess
> lo se dukse any/some in excess thing(s) somet= hing in excess
> lo te dukse any/some standard for excess a standard = of excess
>
> On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 5:09 PM, Robin Lee Powell
> <<= a href=3D"mailto:rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org">rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org> wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 03, 2010 at 04:36:01PM -0= 700, Jonathan Jones wrote:
>> > =C2=A0 =C2=A0On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 4:13 PM, Robin Lee Powell=
>> > =C2=A0 =C2=A0<[1]rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org> wrote:
>> >
&g= t;> > =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0On Wed, Mar 03, 2010 at 04:10:48PM -0700, J= onathan Jones wrote:
>> > =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BDThe list of the i= tems is finished, the definitions for
>> > Smart.fm are
>= > > =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0not.
>> > =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>= ; =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BDIn point of fact, there are exactly three areas that a= re not
>> > =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0finished- the
>> > =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0> =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BDaudio for the entries,
>> >>> > =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Yep.
>> > =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0> the simplified definitions for Smart.fm for about 70% of the
>> > =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> items,
>> >
>> = > =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Trivially producable from jbofihe data. =EF=BF=BDI= still want someone to
>> > =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0explain to me w= hy we're simplifying them in the first place?
>> >
>> > =C2=A0 =C2=A0Oi, I've already said why. = The gismu definitions need to be
>> > simplified
>> &g= t; =C2=A0 =C2=A0because, 1) The definitions from the gismu list are, more o= ften than
>> > not,
>> > =C2=A0 =C2=A0too long for Smart.fm's cards, so they need = to be shortened to fit,
>> > and 2)
>> > =C2=A0 =C2= =A0They non-vocal punctuation needs to be edited out.
>> >
&= gt;> > =C2=A0 =C2=A0For this reason the definition for bakfu, which i= n the gismu list is
>> > "x1
>> > =C2=A0 =C2=A0is a bundle/package/cl= uster/clump/pack [shape/form] containing x2,
>> > held
>&= gt; > =C2=A0 =C2=A0together by x3", becomes "x1 is a bundle or= pack containing x2 held
>> > =C2=A0 =C2=A0together by x3"
>>
>> Aga= in: that can be done well enough for the vast majority of words
>>= by a simple script, and then fix the mistakes by hand.
>>
>= > I just hate to see people spending human time when machine time
>> would do the job. =C2=A0Tell me what format you want it in, and I&= #39;ll
>> write something to do what you just did to all the gismu= .
>>
>> -Robin
>>
>> --
>> The= y say: =C2=A0"The first AIs will be built by the military as weapons.&= quot;
>> And I'm =C2=A0thinking: =C2=A0"Does it even occur to you = to try for something
>> other =C2=A0than =C2=A0the default =C2=A0o= utcome?" =C2=A0See http://shrunklink.com/cdiz
>> http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/ *** http://www.lojban.org/
>>
&= gt;>
>> To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org
>> = with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
>> you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.
>>
>
><= br>>
> --
> mu'o mi'e .aionys.
>
> .i.a&= #39;o.e'e ko klama le bende pe denpa bu
>
>


To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org
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you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.




--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.a= 9;o.e'e ko klama le bende pe denpa bu

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