From 3geewSw8JBmUPLFKDHO.HYHUVRQJPDLO.FRPORMEDQJRRJOHJURXSV.FRP@groups.bounces.google.com Mon Mar 29 10:47:06 2010 Received: from mail-gy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.160.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <3geewSw8JBmUPLFKDHO.HYHUVRQJPDLO.FRPORMEDQJRRJOHJURXSV.FRP@groups.bounces.google.com>) id 1NwJ3G-0005jr-IW for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 10:47:06 -0700 Received: by gyd5 with SMTP id 5sf17576331gyd.16 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 10:46:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:received:received:mime-version :subject:from:in-reply-to:date:message-id:references:to:x-mailer :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=bM0GmKrepscKlEm69VxlsWx+9bvLKxkZByOq21330fk=; b=vttd/8kRkxo7+huguTj7HGbTcyNV1srJQgmfnEKfGakhsEItFSiVvHtXnJgI08VrF2 J8aZIy67aW4Br+boz04VZKCanU+A3Vi/Ht1md39x8VsyuP0F9WSKEXViEYdZM02nhLDR LlVAuD8Xl3FpUak/XlEFG814w4+UmEmyV3HFg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date :message-id:references:to:x-mailer:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=tJTO2typEc5sr+D3QaXfINLB4w06KCwHntptaVJ9y90Q5s9VRJLwtks0ZLP6Hn7vLS /GxMolC9gAhNRg38/tIyQalbun2w9jC6azsnb2JfzgnfCY89ZCjm0wI9jABVzRsUdoMo JAqWpA4szuov/2Ix7HlWRc248tIvCgqFP5pN8= Received: by 10.91.121.20 with SMTP id y20mr393569agm.53.1269884801319; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 10:46:41 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.213.2.70 with SMTP id 6ls1287185ebi.2.p; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 10:46:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.213.54.1 with SMTP id o1mr522242ebg.21.1269884799994; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 10:46:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.213.54.1 with SMTP id o1mr522241ebg.21.1269884799969; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 10:46:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ew0-f225.google.com (mail-ew0-f225.google.com [209.85.219.225]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 12si233609ewy.10.2010.03.29.10.46.38; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 10:46:38 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of michael.everson@gmail.com designates 209.85.219.225 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.219.225; Received: by ewy25 with SMTP id 25so4834014ewy.7 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 10:46:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.213.49.142 with SMTP id v14mr2665075ebf.84.1269884798845; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 10:46:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.104] (murrisk2.westnet.ie [88.81.100.235]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 15sm2426597ewy.0.2010.03.29.10.46.38 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Mon, 29 Mar 2010 10:46:38 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1078) Subject: Re: [lojban] la .alis. From: Michael Everson In-Reply-To: <20100329141713.GA29026@sdf.lonestar.org> Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 18:46:37 +0100 Message-Id: References: <2320FCB7-86FE-4E30-9F24-DAD6E40024D7@evertype.com> <925d17561003280714y30d5eb1fo19b9f97eb6902eaa@mail.gmail.com> <5BD9338A-1033-49E9-9A75-49046469DE95@gmail.com> <20100329141713.GA29026@sdf.lonestar.org> To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1078) X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of michael.everson@gmail.com designates 209.85.219.225 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=michael.everson@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: michael.everson@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/62f96e395a91e500 X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/ad88e122df8112b8 Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On 29 Mar 2010, at 15:17, Minimiscience wrote: > de'i li 29 pi'e 03 pi'e 2010 la'o fy. Michael Everson .fy. cusku zoi skamyxatra. >> To the unfocused eye, Lojban is no different from Basque in its >> non-Indo-Europeanism. ;-) > > Good! Almost the entire point of Lojban and Loglan is to create a language unlike any natural one and see what happens. My point was that, non-Indo-European as it is, Basque still enjoys the richness of Latin typographic conventions. > Trying to make Lojban more like widely-spoken languages defeats the whole point of attempting to isolate a Sapir-Whorf effect or whatever it is we're supposed to be doing. The Sapir-Whorf hyphothesis has nothing **whatsoever** with writing. English can be written in Latin letters, Greek letters, Runes, Verdurian, Shavian, Deseret or IPA, and it makes no difference at all in terms of what Sapir-Whorf is about. > Differences in orthography force learners to think about the language more and, hopefully, improve the way they think in general. Well, as an expert in writing systems, I think that's a pretty baseless assertion. Reading English in Deseret or Shavian does not make you think about English differently. I don't mean to be grumpy about it, but that's really just nonsense. (Quite apart from Alice.) Michael -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.