From 3-fKwSwoJBugVOYc.WYVKcQWKSV.MYWVYTLKXQYYQVOQbYeZc.MYW@groups.bounces.google.com Mon Mar 29 11:36:06 2010 Received: from mail-yw0-f160.google.com ([209.85.211.160]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <3-fKwSwoJBugVOYc.WYVKcQWKSV.MYWVYTLKXQYYQVOQbYeZc.MYW@groups.bounces.google.com>) id 1NwJod-000268-6m for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 11:36:06 -0700 Received: by ywh32 with SMTP id 32sf8375677ywh.28 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 11:35:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:received:received:message-id:date :from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to :x-enigmail-version:content-type:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=b72qdhLmWk6g2id2HRgDrFc1YDFZTWvEkBvLE/OZFcc=; b=CTCUGYI83lCKgBcrbWLCbxEBTvpfuhR3YcNG+FxH0gPPIrLw0Ps7RY7TDVL3ELTCGA bdG41/RQrifTDbNvvEvuEzzLyJDs3xH/9jkC9XajaFZf7/5oJqa0QzRC45hpr51poT1W PB6uCvxD6BV46qcS5ZX5uXUoPIvWryCY63NT0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:message-id:date:from:user-agent :mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:x-enigmail-version :content-type:x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help :list-archive:x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe; b=NmpymGU4thSFeg8Eps8B0DsDoxrDjGCgFmRef0EFPVqLiziWqOSzj9Cp4K8sAroHWA ap+12ujSelC4u/daA0vOh1XXrGK4BfJSKpsEa8ZIDXBv1fu2kCoq07YrQwO75L5Bdal3 G72EkbHaOXBHNjqgkpWIG3Vi8b4dpk9WasS9Y= Received: by 10.91.113.16 with SMTP id q16mr400678agm.19.1269887737545; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 11:35:37 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.231.28.1 with SMTP id k1ls1899556ibc.3.p; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 11:35:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.160.196 with SMTP id o4mr338965ibx.14.1269887735822; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 11:35:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.160.196 with SMTP id o4mr338963ibx.14.1269887735760; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 11:35:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vw0-f50.google.com (mail-vw0-f50.google.com [209.85.212.50]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 25si574531iwn.4.2010.03.29.11.35.34; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 11:35:34 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of leos.molas@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.50 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.212.50; Received: by vws5 with SMTP id 5so952338vws.23 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 11:35:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.124.2 with SMTP id s2mr3265906vcr.159.1269887733513; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 11:35:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([190.97.37.224]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 31sm101307647vws.7.2010.03.29.11.35.31 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Mon, 29 Mar 2010 11:35:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4BB0F2FA.7050409@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 15:35:38 -0300 From: Leo Molas User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; es-AR; rv:1.9.1.8) Gecko/20100227 Thunderbird/3.0.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] la .alis. References: <2320FCB7-86FE-4E30-9F24-DAD6E40024D7@evertype.com> <925d17561003280714y30d5eb1fo19b9f97eb6902eaa@mail.gmail.com> <4BAF7446.6070008@gmail.com> <20100328192909.GG6600@digitalkingdom.org> <925d17561003281729t30ffbfcbge6209c18f8d01d36@mail.gmail.com> <96E08F3C-5DB3-4601-A112-425F8182DB0C@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <96E08F3C-5DB3-4601-A112-425F8182DB0C@gmail.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.0.1 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enig9AC5159FC08F3ECC81B2E3F4" X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of leos.molas@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.50 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=leos.molas@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: leos.molas@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/62f96e395a91e500 X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/53c20d17b26a591 Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enig9AC5159FC08F3ECC81B2E3F4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >> For example, I could write a book in English, but I change all >> characters 'a' with 'u', and all 'u' with '#' (saying it's because >> it's more beautiful or readable). >=20 > This is not analogous to what I am interested in doing. >=20 >> It would be a pain in the ass for all the English speakers, and, >> assuming it's actually better, is not going to really help anyone, >> since new speakers will be confused. >=20 > The analogue would be to publish a book in English with all its > punctuation removed and with all capital letters converted to small > letters. >=20 Nice analogy. As a English speaker, would you like a book like that (given the publisher claims it's more beautiful or sylish...)? >> And about this last point, if anyone get who doesn't speak lojban, >> and is interested, he or she will be confused when he start >> learning lojban. I think this would be the worst part. >=20 > Actually I personally have never made any headway in understanding > how Lojban worked before I tried to parse it with punctuation. >=20 >=20 >> Take the natural languages, for example. They evolved for >> centuries, as well as their written versions, but they have so many >> problems, that led us to develop a language trying to prevent all >> this faults. >=20 > Punctuation and capitalization is mark-up. It *adds* information. So > long as it is used judiciously, I cannot see how it might be related > to the kind of "fault" to which you refer. >=20 You're not only adding information, but also changing the way it's commonly written. mu'o mi'e .leos. --=20 My lojban journal: http://learninglojban.wordpress.com My personal blog: http://leomolas.tumblr.com --------------enig9AC5159FC08F3ECC81B2E3F4 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQEbBAEBAgAGBQJLsPL/AAoJEGPqAjdF26uEQKgH91Nm2i7pPWiZGv+ymzO9Ugn3 QNFV5Yugcj0dRPmCp7+ZzgZyJJ0/7hhtRTigQw/GsZfyW8wiVPFbql1/OshzvkCb RF3FfV6TPjrkOIceOBRGf+dAmb9DN6+tPNEuZCBtT4zQpRsXM7Bp+W2s5eMy5irh dyU3XxX4i9XCkc+ViK4wR6qh7yjctOd5+Dus9muQAzbhLc2WNnVCUHWL21EikiVo q6vb5aij3Ts/m78M6kIq60UcHOCUgMkVakXF7fMve9AG2pM+xPMfTHIO2afFw8kl 0yWwUddKDYU4CAp6mga/QyVVbZ71zCcInc/W+DvD/jojbf+XyP9SOOQsbFC24g== =g2FC -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enig9AC5159FC08F3ECC81B2E3F4--