From 3qwexSw8JBq8bXRWPTa.TkTghdcVbPXa.RdbadYQPcVddVaTVgdjeh.Rdb@groups.bounces.google.com Mon Mar 29 13:04:21 2010 Received: from mail-yw0-f160.google.com ([209.85.211.160]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <3qwexSw8JBq8bXRWPTa.TkTghdcVbPXa.RdbadYQPcVddVaTVgdjeh.Rdb@groups.bounces.google.com>) id 1NwLC4-00016O-L5 for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 13:04:21 -0700 Received: by ywh32 with SMTP id 32sf8443737ywh.28 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 13:04:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:received:received:mime-version :subject:from:in-reply-to:date:message-id:references:to:x-mailer :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=AhhyVc6cgccD7D0myG4RIw786DYQvxJ67SjhPZWda+Y=; b=nzegczGhu2U58uzOrLwWivFEWfdP+XrzPke9QDLbESfLQTX8cDME/YA1EGyODV8WKK 42XlZpziHhkrt5MIveajCDiv4BYnCh6Krc4fqPLPNpr+Hwm6UwZD4j2CKf79mETJtb1c kB/lhB4fasOyvtbS1xjnZJywvqceBXOJApeB8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date :message-id:references:to:x-mailer:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=qFGBfV9S4s1wdiy09ugBbggSfOi3+nCA9vC6RdNJap0t7u6GvzfnhnL/pC2mBlb1Wm rPQ7SRJ+Xnw9w6bjAiPBbAjE7hnDFo4Qt+4B5C7pkyfS1CNAQpfUw9+QQD4mQvWIW5cW nGvVfjDJsdbzRwohCfF6xbmjloLi70eVsev60= Received: by 10.91.90.9 with SMTP id s9mr405364agl.13.1269893035294; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 13:03:55 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.213.50.10 with SMTP id x10ls1298146ebf.3.p; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 13:03:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.213.25.76 with SMTP id y12mr547893ebb.12.1269893033483; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 13:03:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.213.25.76 with SMTP id y12mr547892ebb.12.1269893033444; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 13:03:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ey-out-2122.google.com (ey-out-2122.google.com [74.125.78.26]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 18si245957ewy.0.2010.03.29.13.03.52; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 13:03:52 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of michael.everson@gmail.com designates 74.125.78.26 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.78.26; Received: by ey-out-2122.google.com with SMTP id 4so1023479eyf.5 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 13:03:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.171.7 with SMTP id q7mr306017wel.40.1269893032242; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 13:03:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.104] (murrisk2.westnet.ie [88.81.100.235]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id x6sm14007076gvf.27.2010.03.29.13.03.50 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Mon, 29 Mar 2010 13:03:51 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1078) Subject: Re: [lojban] la .alis. From: Michael Everson In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 21:03:49 +0100 Message-Id: References: <2320FCB7-86FE-4E30-9F24-DAD6E40024D7@evertype.com> <702226df1003290731i3cbaeb3fs9db2d49a667273b1@mail.gmail.com> <44AE9DF1-8DD8-4134-895C-054AA27AE1EC@gmail.com> <702226df1003290810r9685560v7ef251bdfb421911@mail.gmail.com> <4BB0D4DF.2070501@gmail.com> <702226df1003291006o242c37a8q6bc5ea53b6e6377d@mail.gmail.com> <702226df1003291109p6508ea18q8fd9cd68f593a70c@mail.gmail.com> <5715b9301003291146h66475c74off6625befee8fdf5@mail.gmail.com> To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1078) X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of michael.everson@gmail.com designates 74.125.78.26 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=michael.everson@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: michael.everson@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/62f96e395a91e500 X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/13f7b2828205f477 Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On 29 Mar 2010, at 20:23, Christopher Doty wrote: > On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 11:46, Luke Bergen wrote: > It seems a little type-o-centric to say "it uses latin characters, therefore, for some reasons or other, it should use the same typographic standards". > > But this isn't quite true. Lojban, with a couple of exceptions, uses Latin characters just like other languages that use Latin characters. "G" does not, for example, represent the sound [a]. Noooooooo, that's *orthography*. > What Michael seems to be proposing is exactly the same thing--Lojban conventions for punctuation and capitalization should follow what is done for other languages which use the Latin script, in order to make it more accessible to people. No, Michael is saying that he's going to set *this* Victorian book in the same style and to the same typographic standard as all his other editions of *this* Victorian book. I have no idea what if any impact this will have on the users of Lojban. As such my project is, in addition to be part of a Carrollian collection, part of a dialogue with the LoCCan project. > I am honestly kind of surprised to find this much debate in response to the idea that something be changed. I have not proposed that the standard orthography, or standardly sanctioned options, be reviewed or revised. I don't necessarily oppose such a discussion, but I have not made a request for such a discussion to take place. > Is there actually any reason to NOT make Lojban more accessible to people, except that people who are already proficient in the language don't like it? Now, there's a good point. > I don't mean that sarcastically; I missed the start of the conversation--what is gained by asserting that there should be no change? Stability, and impenetrability. :-) Michael -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.