From 3ZBaxSwoJBncfVgd4kpomVtVcjj.XjhgjeWVibjjbgZbmjpkn.Xjh@groups.bounces.google.com Mon Mar 29 14:07:10 2010 Received: from mail-vw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.212.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <3ZBaxSwoJBncfVgd4kpomVtVcjj.XjhgjeWVibjjbgZbmjpkn.Xjh@groups.bounces.google.com>) id 1NwMAs-00055o-01 for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 14:07:10 -0700 Received: by vws3 with SMTP id 3sf1388509vws.16 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 14:06:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:message-id:x-ymail-osg:received :x-mailer:references:date:from:subject:to:in-reply-to:mime-version :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=tTQJHIOZ+VvfXK12/jTEg8zPJWxuKz3aKz/mQRHGaIA=; b=hgrmWKBAxuAHiNRwJk9kRY67MdQBsLv1VwuOJAFgbx1ZmBpyjDpKyQpoS2bAMaYhJ+ yMHYEnghFqrEdgXc4pjAy90YvIOFzRC1RyWY5gcZfUJnRveb+7EjLGXOSyCnPweWpI2a 3lI9zOHUzKihJkZAG9SlerWPg2GUmZk5k4iMM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:message-id:x-ymail-osg:x-mailer:references :date:from:subject:to:in-reply-to:mime-version :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; b=gKmwq64PkRU13P2SkWbdJ/7q+HsNehJTpbxv6dyqfq5TlZ61u4CSX6iGa4wJBbodL7 82Rob1Oxf6F+5ZA5Eg3G7JatBSsS0TFkFeEsbh3GGwNc/FUni0oVOzYav4WYbmUbaNYG JVQbN1xA0z8yUARIJfI2Qv1KIkNhyrzYJzzrM= Received: by 10.220.123.92 with SMTP id o28mr16283vcr.0.1269896804582; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 14:06:44 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.220.68.217 with SMTP id w25ls299162vci.1.p; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 14:06:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.4.37 with SMTP id 37mr1343570vcp.16.1269896801856; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 14:06:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.4.37 with SMTP id 37mr1343569vcp.16.1269896801808; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 14:06:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web81307.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web81307.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.199.123]) by gmr-mx.google.com with SMTP id 31si11311351vws.4.2010.03.29.14.06.40; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 14:06:40 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 68.142.199.123 as permitted sender) client-ip=68.142.199.123; Received: (qmail 82229 invoked by uid 60001); 29 Mar 2010 21:06:40 -0000 Message-ID: <241890.82160.qm@web81307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: pYYswTIVM1kpFUKgwvvLgC3O9jSFPMpny5IYsT28YK3gC9s .SiDcDTEkM9LdxwULrjxlWlFtBBTCnkgoIVhjp06MRrVgLqtpRUI4TVKZfwV n3uD1CT0Msc2XIPbjKMefOL0GOIJJDn5G.kK7kj0RKWgPqoZJosot3muJdpL .QMOPL51zaz1fNEuJXd2V2ymjx22RCplx3xdtfX7PbVLm4CWA82hNFzlcxIK Ag4JfKFNRrBdQEy40cd3Rc1Z.i2zFGuRBwxNjH1bqmDTnKtDu6ml.M3oksyt 5N7YhB9ZQK8AClz0JOPpoIQ836QaMeTaZbfEUJ7f5ULl8C_3Kmw3Qn.ND Received: from [71.14.73.129] by web81307.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 14:06:40 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/324.3 YahooMailWebService/0.8.100.260964 References: <2320FCB7-86FE-4E30-9F24-DAD6E40024D7@evertype.com> <702226df1003291006o242c37a8q6bc5ea53b6e6377d@mail.gmail.com> <702226df1003291109p6508ea18q8fd9cd68f593a70c@mail.gmail.com> <5715b9301003291146h66475c74off6625befee8fdf5@mail.gmail.com> <702226df1003291319s63636a59t68668f5a79e79d4b@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 14:06:40 -0700 (PDT) From: John E Clifford Subject: Re: [lojban] la .alis. To: lojban@googlegroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 68.142.199.123 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=kali9putra@yahoo.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@yahoo.com X-Original-Sender: kali9putra@yahoo.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/62f96e395a91e500 X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/b47d12cb263f962b Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1519651078-1269896800=:82160" --0-1519651078-1269896800=:82160 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Amazing as it may seem, Lojban, as a language, is a spoken object. Since t= here are few people who would claim that they actually speak it (and even f= ewer who could back up that claim in a face-to-face) , for most Lojbanist L= ojban exists as a written object. Thus, *how* Lojban is written takes on m= any of the aspects that would occur in a normal language about how it was s= poken -- with favored dialects and accents and so on. And, as in most case= s where snobbery is an issue, discussion can get to be rather intense -- an= d off topic and off courtesy. The only requirement for a writing system fo= r Lojban is that there be a written-spoken isomorphism; what that isomorphi= sm is doesn't really matter (as witness the range of variations already ac= cepted). A Lojban writing system with proper names capitalized and the fir= st functional word of each sentence similarly, would still be an adequate w= riting system, though with a slightly more complex isomorphism (after all G and g stand for the same sound), and if we threw in a few pun= ctuation marks proper (commas for subordinate clauses, say, question marks,= and quotes of one sort or another), an isomorphism would still hold (thoug= h again a slightly more complex one). And some clarity might occasionally = be gained. And some elegance or whatever lost. =20 But don't let this opportunity go by by burying it under a mass of trivial = objections, that have nothing to do with Lojban per se. =20 --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den. --0-1519651078-1269896800=:82160 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Amazing as it may seem, Lojban, as a language, is a spoken obj= ect.  Since there are few people who would claim that they actually sp= eak it (and even fewer who could back up that claim in a face-to-face) , fo= r most Lojbanist Lojban exists as a written object.  Thus, *how* Lojba= n is written takes on many of the aspects that would occur in a normal lang= uage about how it was spoken -- with favored dialects and accents and so on= .  And, as in most cases where snobbery is an issue, discussion can ge= t to be rather intense -- and off topic and off courtesy.  The only re= quirement for a writing system for Lojban is that there be a written-spoken= isomorphism; what that isomorphism is doesn't really matter (as witness&nb= sp; the range of variations already accepted).  A Lojban writing system with proper names capitalized and the first functional word of each= sentence similarly, would still be an adequate writing system, though with= a slightly more complex isomorphism (after all G and g stand for the same = sound), and if we threw in a few punctuation marks proper (commas for subor= dinate clauses, say, question marks, and quotes of one sort or another), an= isomorphism would still hold (though again a slightly more complex one).&n= bsp; And some clarity might occasionally be gained.  And some elegance= or whatever lost. 

But don't let this opportunity go by by bu= rying it under a mass of trivial objections, that have nothing to do with L= ojban per se.

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You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.
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