From 3bx-xSwoJBos7931xrw6x7v1px0.r3103yqp2v33v0tv63947.r31@groups.bounces.google.com Mon Mar 29 14:45:50 2010 Received: from mail-vw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.212.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <3bx-xSwoJBos7931xrw6x7v1px0.r3103yqp2v33v0tv63947.r31@groups.bounces.google.com>) id 1NwMmD-00070J-46 for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 14:45:50 -0700 Received: by vws3 with SMTP id 3sf1501826vws.16 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 14:45:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:in-reply-to :references:from:date:received:message-id:subject:to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=aoKIQ63HJ1ceFl7p0d+OSNijf1udLp5pEIHXGwNt+ww=; b=3g4F2RV1bSK6SUT4X+7cZMrCOZd5AeBeblVOevr4141m1bQxMsREO59y1PK3PHwX14 IgMglzeJIUuGScKpwZzs/wilOdgZlnFQPdI2ZbsgHr4D2US2QA32VSCEpxX2S34LUm81 /RxitdL5pQ88RuwlsDLuHAdb2JUD412e+TiQA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=s0sdq5GVEt/xzaY5P4RCzJhEmgejeVZaRwWFTQK0NMzWr2obpx5kZRC4ENSTcpMdYD rRjNp1wIFDwPc7mqRbHJCC0kU64oPA3FcZRw9TG4alQGrXzo3sXuxQQP77opXH8YLkZj jtpexFsa9ort8GYxMypg3uqAVyW9iK8ksZd5M= Received: by 10.220.124.66 with SMTP id t2mr534319vcr.3.1269899119163; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 14:45:19 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.220.79.3 with SMTP id n3ls1665479vck.3.p; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 14:45:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.165.85 with SMTP id h21mr1329323vcy.12.1269899117825; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 14:45:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.165.85 with SMTP id h21mr1329322vcy.12.1269899117778; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 14:45:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yx0-f199.google.com (mail-yx0-f199.google.com [209.85.210.199]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 29si11398045vws.2.2010.03.29.14.45.16; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 14:45:16 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of suomichris@gmail.com designates 209.85.210.199 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.210.199; Received: by mail-yx0-f199.google.com with SMTP id 37so5099178yxe.21 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 14:45:16 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.100.133.20 with HTTP; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 14:44:56 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <823039.83155.qm@web81308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <2320FCB7-86FE-4E30-9F24-DAD6E40024D7@evertype.com> <5715b9301003291146h66475c74off6625befee8fdf5@mail.gmail.com> <702226df1003291319s63636a59t68668f5a79e79d4b@mail.gmail.com> <823039.83155.qm@web81308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: Christopher Doty Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 14:44:56 -0700 Received: by 10.101.214.4 with SMTP id r4mr5193410anq.141.1269899116180; Mon, 29 Mar 2010 14:45:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] la .alis. To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of suomichris@gmail.com designates 209.85.210.199 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=suomichris@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: suomichris@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/62f96e395a91e500 X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/cea64aff2a37d910 Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636c927c1b875f80482f76daf --001636c927c1b875f80482f76daf Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Actually, no. What Michael said was: "Orthography is the thing the spell-checker looks at." and "The spell-checker ... may or may not ignore capitalization depending on how it is set." Thus, if the spellchecker is set to ignore capitalization, it is not looking at capitalization, which means that capitalization is no long part of the orthography. I prefer to define my words with dictionaries instead of spellcheckers; here is what the OED says for orthography: 1. a. Correct or proper spelling; spelling according to accepted usage or convention. Also personified. b. A system of spelling or notation. c. Spelling as an art or practice; the branch of knowledge which deals with letters and their combination to represent sounds and words; the study of spelling. I intend meaning 1(b) here, which is current. Typography is: 1. The art or practice of printing. b. A printing establishment, a press. Obs. 2. The action or process of printing; esp. the setting and arrangement of types and printing from them; typographical execution; hence, the arrangement and appearance of printed matter. I assume y'all are intending the second here, which includes a set of metaphorical extensions to get to the meaning. Nonetheless, typography is an issue of page layout and font selection, even by that definition, and NOT an issue of punctuation. Chris On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 14:30, John E Clifford wrote: > No, just what the orthographical rules are. > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Christopher Doty > *To:* lojban@googlegroups.com > *Sent:* Mon, March 29, 2010 4:23:05 PM > > *Subject:* Re: [lojban] la .alis. > > This would seem to imply that changing the settings in one's spellchecker > would change what counts as orthography... > > On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 14:11, Michael Everson wrote: > >> On 29 Mar 2010, at 21:24, Christopher Doty wrote: >> >> > Yes, I realize they are not (exactly) the same thing, but "orthography," >> as commonly understood, is not devoid of typographic conventions >> >> Orthography is the thing the spell-checker looks at. >> >> The spell-checker ignores punctuation (typically, it ignores quotation >> marks regularly but will distinguish "can't" and "cant") and may or may not >> ignore capitalization depending on how it is set. >> >> Michael >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "lojban" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com >> . >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. >> >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --001636c927c1b875f80482f76daf Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Actually, no. =A0What Michael said was:

"Orthography is the thing = the spell-checker looks at."

and

"The spell-checker ... may or may not ignore capitalization depen= ding on how it is set."

Thus, if the spellchecker is set to ignore capitalization, it is not l= ooking at capitalization, which means that capitalization is no long part o= f the orthography.

I prefer to define my words with dictionaries instead of spellcheckers= ; here is what the OED says for orthography:

1. a. Correct or proper spelling; spelling according to accepted usage or c= onvention. Also personified.
=A0=A0 =A0b. A system of spelling or= notation.
=A0=A0 =A0c. Spelling as an art or practice; the branc= h of knowledge which deals with letters and their combination to represent = sounds and words; the study of spelling.

I intend meaning 1(b) here, which is current. =A0Typogr= aphy is:

=A01. The art or practice of printin= g.
=A0=A0 =A0b. A printing establishment, a press. Obs.
2. The action or process of printing; esp. the setting and arrangement of = types and printing from them; typographical execution; hence, the arrangeme= nt and appearance of printed matter.

I assume y'all are intending the second here, which= includes a set of metaphorical extensions to get to the meaning. =A0Noneth= eless, typography is an issue of page layout and font selection, even by th= at definition, and NOT an issue of punctuation.

Chris


On Mon, Mar 29, 201= 0 at 14:30, John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com> wrote:
No, just what the orthographical rules are.

From: Christopher Doty <suomichris@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Sent: Mon, March 29, 2010 4:23:05 P= M

Subject: Re: [lojban] la= .alis.

This would seem to imply that changing the settings in one's spellcheck= er would change what counts as orthography...

On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 14:11, Michael Everson <<= a rel=3D"nofollow" href=3D"mailto:michael.everson@gmail.com" target=3D"_bla= nk">michael.everson@gmail.com> wrote:
On 29 Mar 2010, at= 21:24, Christopher Doty wrote:

> Yes, I realize they are not (exactly) the same thing, but "orthog= raphy," as commonly understood, is not devoid of typographic conventio= ns

Orthography is the thing the spell-checker looks at.

The spell-checker ignores punctuation (typically, it ignores quotation mark= s regularly but will distinguish "can't" and "cant"= ) and may or may not ignore capitalization depending on how it is set.

Michael

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