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From: Michael Everson In-Reply-To: <702226df1003291317k3fe81acbw61ac85133c4537f3@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 09:51:15 +0100 Message-Id: References: <2320FCB7-86FE-4E30-9F24-DAD6E40024D7@evertype.com> <702226df1003290810r9685560v7ef251bdfb421911@mail.gmail.com> <4BB0D4DF.2070501@gmail.com> <702226df1003291006o242c37a8q6bc5ea53b6e6377d@mail.gmail.com> <702226df1003291109p6508ea18q8fd9cd68f593a70c@mail.gmail.com> <5715b9301003291146h66475c74off6625befee8fdf5@mail.gmail.com> <702226df1003291317k3fe81acbw61ac85133c4537f3@mail.gmail.com> To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1078) X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of michael.everson@gmail.com designates 209.85.218.212 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=michael.everson@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: michael.everson@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/62f96e395a91e500 X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/573b489d81ca6ce5 Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 29 Mar 2010, at 21:17, Jonathan Jones wrote: >>> I don't mean that sarcastically; I missed the start of the conversation= --what is gained by asserting that there should be no change? >>=20 >> Stability, and impenetrability. > =20 > I agree with the stability bit, but I don't agree that Lojban as written = in the standard convention is impenetrable. I think that the ordinary criteria of legibility would favour my position. > A bit difficult at first, It's forbidding and cold and unfriendly.=20 > and more so with Jorge's consistent lack of denpabu, but not impenetrable= . Not only does one have to learn a language whose rules of morphology an syn= tax are *very* different from any natural language (and that's extremely co= ol) but one has to do it without being able to tell at a glance whether a t= en-line paragraph is a lot of short sentences or one massive complex senten= ce with three or four levels of nested quotation or what. Maybe that's attractive to people with a lot of maths or with ADD or some o= ther kind of genius. As a trained linguist, expert in the world's writing s= ystems, type designer, and typesetter, I can say that it is extremely off-p= utting. The eye has nowhere to focus.=20 > (I would like to state that in my own experience, the difficulties I had = when first reading Lojban have since been reversed- that is, what once diff= icult to read due to lack of that which I am used to seeing in English text= is now difficult if those elements *are* there- with the exception of whit= e space, and not counting my difficulty in reading {lonu lojbo bacru cu na = ponse lo denpabu} ("Lojban without the {.}").) Except that you say that you don't ever see such elements in Lojban text --= so how can you be sure? Michael --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.