From 3tQeySwgJBrowijsyfytlrfnq.htrqtogfslttlqjlwtzux.htr@groups.bounces.google.com Tue Mar 30 07:16:49 2010 Received: from mail-yx0-f141.google.com ([209.85.210.141]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <3tQeySwgJBrowijsyfytlrfnq.htrqtogfslttlqjlwtzux.htr@groups.bounces.google.com>) id 1NwcFH-0007pg-RZ for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 07:16:48 -0700 Received: by yxe5 with SMTP id 5sf1667785yxe.2 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 07:16:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:in-reply-to :references:date:received:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=T3iNZUG3SqHfxWRkXtsqCnxKq011oGD7vKKz5cucXeU=; b=wHx5OobG8JZ8fjNrB0ZCzlVJct3rrA0aeJ+KCkEEkOTzhGuotaG12q6HDEphlfbTzV RcKmfOPF31vRjA2ZamIqYWsR3smyBvFVkCLK09AkNcD/h+tS6/9oVgKHkUymMcoebAhZ RPuLS6Hvn6AjbFazXIJ2mNQqVD91yNAwTQJpA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=R3R/ZdXmdKwTuDwi952o6yMryrv4Lb1LUKSuzCdjB3Gml5aE8dwTdzdzzR5LQc/TXT eiWqno60beHaYL8b3VpQgjkRWN+Mi6zGv4ulCfK++JWNEjMKumrmlhTJc525dLkicnfn HvJF23Xj11G7IrC/RyLRkhDDMXcQterpAyUxw= Received: by 10.151.89.10 with SMTP id r10mr193634ybl.76.1269958581610; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 07:16:21 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.90.248.13 with SMTP id v13ls747489agh.7.p; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 07:16:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.90.2.21 with SMTP id 21mr7747624agb.11.1269958580604; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 07:16:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.90.2.21 with SMTP id 21mr7747620agb.11.1269958580422; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 07:16:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ey-out-2122.google.com (ey-out-2122.google.com [74.125.78.27]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 24si246740yxe.9.2010.03.30.07.16.19; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 07:16:19 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of rdentato@gmail.com designates 74.125.78.27 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.78.27; Received: by ey-out-2122.google.com with SMTP id 4so1040528eyf.29 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 07:16:18 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.21.19 with HTTP; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 07:16:18 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <5715b9301003300703h3a6a3d56t55d59cc18bd01d46@mail.gmail.com> References: <4BB0D4DF.2070501@gmail.com> <5715b9301003291146h66475c74off6625befee8fdf5@mail.gmail.com> <8EE07369-765A-49AB-AEC4-1DEC1A904C37@gmail.com> <20100330090253.GG3000@nvg.org> <59C6A282-0F28-4016-98C7-907FBD3C4379@gmail.com> <4BB20330.6030403@gmail.com> <5715b9301003300703h3a6a3d56t55d59cc18bd01d46@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 16:16:18 +0200 Received: by 10.216.88.65 with SMTP id z43mr450989wee.5.1269958578623; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 07:16:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <23298cb41003300716o6cd32a2bu6578ae37933c3488@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [lojban] la .alis. From: Remo Dentato To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of rdentato@gmail.com designates 74.125.78.27 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=rdentato@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: rdentato@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/62f96e395a91e500 X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/128b6a30081b79a4 Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6d9a317f555fe0483054554 --0016e6d9a317f555fe0483054554 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 4:03 PM, Luke Bergen wrote: > And I still don't understand what you stand to gain from changing things to > make them suit your tastes. [...] I don't mean to sound mean, but it kind > of sounds like someone coming over to my house and drawing mustaches on all > the art on my walls because "it's more common for males from this period to > have mustaches, it looks more appealing to me, and because I can". > > I don't think it's a fair representation, Luke. I see this as a valuable effort to make lojban easier to read. The language is already difficult in itself that I can't understand why there's the need of making it difficult to read. Yes, with time people will get used to the way Lojban is written but I can't see why there must be an initial barrier on this aspect too. And let me add another comment. I do agree that Lojban does not *need* many formatting rules since it is formally specified by its grammar but you could use the same argument the C programs. I would feel really sorry for anyone that had to maintain a big C source code base that makes no use of good formatting rules. There are studies and experiments that shows that typography and formatting have a huge impact on the comprehension of source code and I see lojban playing in the same league of formal languages. remod -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --0016e6d9a317f555fe0483054554 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 4:03 PM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gma= il.com> wrote:
And I still don't understand what you stand to gain from changing thing= s to make them suit your tastes.=A0 [...]=A0 I don't mean to sound mean= , but it kind of sounds like someone coming over to my house and drawing mu= staches on all the art on my walls because "it's more common for m= ales from this period to have mustaches, it looks more appealing to me, and= because I can".

=A0
I don't think it's a fair representation, Luke.=A0 I see this as = a valuable effort to make lojban easier to read.=A0 The language is already= difficult in itself that I can't understand why there's the need o= f making it difficult to read.

Yes, with time people will get used to the way Lojban is written but I = can't see why there must be an initial barrier on this aspect too.
<= br>And let me add another comment.=A0 I do agree that Lojban does not *need= * many formatting rules since it is formally specified by its grammar but y= ou could use the same argument the C programs.

I would feel really sorry for anyone that had to maintain a big C sourc= e code base that makes no use of good formatting rules. There are studies a= nd experiments that shows that typography and formatting have a huge impact= on the comprehension of source code and I see lojban playing in the same l= eague of formal languages.

remod


=A0


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