From 3fQ6ySw8JBokzvpunry.r8r4510tznvy.p1zy1won0t11tyrt41725.p1z@groups.bounces.google.com Tue Mar 30 07:45:58 2010 Received: from mail-yw0-f160.google.com ([209.85.211.160]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <3fQ6ySw8JBokzvpunry.r8r4510tznvy.p1zy1won0t11tyrt41725.p1z@groups.bounces.google.com>) id 1NwchM-0004CP-0B for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 07:45:58 -0700 Received: by ywh32 with SMTP id 32sf9354646ywh.28 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 07:45:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:received:received:mime-version :subject:from:in-reply-to:date:message-id:references:to:x-mailer :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=JPgX3/gvdAnlEZsIxsD5MyaJyJ1oHUlqknQGg6ajoQU=; b=R7vL87utWT5RO78DIp8RMttACfwCkMxuM/FuQQvDjfVfq2VdWzB50EO6whEeLufRhJ 952+4NulKYk4qPpwrohCFQYe4FS37MW+nX7L4s2jhO6sxQ+aSlRk+xiIwT5KcOwnXnrk LDFjbIcAaX6Zt/3/tv2WfTgtJpMxwF8Jak5aI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date :message-id:references:to:x-mailer:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=U1q597GZSpCHt285XxbCSSqNObVeL808sfomt9vVG0jznGiuhPs56A6sPvX1ghJraD U3F3M/7B347bvVC7QAMnw/1JExNmMCYDJ9iQzN7DfuO1sQ7Wie0ZJ+LBGJ6x0nvwEKs4 g5+wGhGke/0PG3Ftl1q7pe8WinFSNsOnI/eA8= Received: by 10.91.188.10 with SMTP id q10mr262607agp.2.1269960317479; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 07:45:17 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.213.2.70 with SMTP id 6ls1400426ebi.2.p; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 07:45:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.213.79.77 with SMTP id o13mr23424ebk.6.1269960316151; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 07:45:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.213.79.77 with SMTP id o13mr23423ebk.6.1269960316073; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 07:45:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ey-out-1920.google.com (ey-out-1920.google.com [74.125.78.149]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 18si313170ewy.12.2010.03.30.07.45.15; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 07:45:15 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of michael.everson@gmail.com designates 74.125.78.149 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.78.149; Received: by ey-out-1920.google.com with SMTP id 26so1037675eyw.42 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 07:45:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.213.76.12 with SMTP id a12mr1418527ebk.55.1269960314804; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 07:45:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.104] (murrisk2.westnet.ie [88.81.100.235]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 14sm3074931ewy.2.2010.03.30.07.45.13 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Tue, 30 Mar 2010 07:45:13 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1078) Subject: Re: [lojban] la .alis. From: Michael Everson In-Reply-To: <20100330142628.GH3000@nvg.org> Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 15:45:11 +0100 Message-Id: <03BF9A66-9041-4FD8-A910-B8C691D646C5@gmail.com> References: <5715b9301003291146h66475c74off6625befee8fdf5@mail.gmail.com> <8EE07369-765A-49AB-AEC4-1DEC1A904C37@gmail.com> <20100330090253.GG3000@nvg.org> <59C6A282-0F28-4016-98C7-907FBD3C4379@gmail.com> <23298cb41003300332u6bde63fdk9f8b819fff7bf2ce@mail.gmail.com> <20100330142628.GH3000@nvg.org> To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1078) X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of michael.everson@gmail.com designates 74.125.78.149 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=michael.everson@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: michael.everson@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/62f96e395a91e500 X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/3281d84745798553 Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 30 Mar 2010, at 15:26, Arnt Richard Johansen wrote: >> http://www.evertype.com/books/alice-jbo-p.1.png >=20 > Thank you very much! You're welcome. > My impressions (if such comments makes a difference to you at this point)= : Of course it does. > Re. the left-hand page: > Reads like Lojban txt spk. It looks immediately familiar, but the lack of= periods before .i makes it look a bit like run-on sentences. Acceptable, b= ut hardly an example of Fine Typography. That's the source text + font and nothing else. > Re. the right-hand page: > First impression: the =93I=94 at the beginning of sentences stick out lik= e a sore thumb! It reminds me of what happens when I type up a Norwegian te= xt in MS Word, and the silly auto-correct =93feature=94 turns the prepositi= on =93i=94 into upper-case. The other sentence-initial capitals, while unfa= miliar at first sight, gives off a charming Old Loglan vibe after a while. = But the other initials give me pause. Why on Earth is =93Blabi=94 and =93Ra= ctu=94 capitalised? Is it because he is a person, and all references to per= sons are capitalised in this story? Yes. He is the White Rabbit and that's what Carroll did. > If so, why isn't the anaphora =93abu=94 capitalised? Without having the o= riginal text in front of me, there is no way to be sure. I take it that this "anaphora" is a sort of pronoun referring to Alice. The= English reads "So she was considering in her own mind..." Well, "she" woul= dn't be capitalized. Used as a letter-name, Abu might be capitalized howeve= r. (Twinkling begins with a Ty.) > Setting words in italics when they are preceded by the emphasis marker = =93ba'e=94 is fine, but when they appear on their own it looks illiterate. = (I presume you are merely copying the italics from some English master, and= the emphasis somehow got lost in the English-to-Lojban translation.) "Very" is italicized twice by Carroll. I don't know what "when they appear = on their own it looks illiterate" means. When words appear in italics on th= eir own it looks "illiterate"?=20 > The parentheses and quotation marks, on the other hand, eases rather than= hinders reading. I'm not surprised. And the question marks and exclamation marks? > Comments that apply to both versions: > The apostrophes in the chapter heading look floating and disconnected bec= ause of the large distance between the cap height and the x-height. Yeah, that's the font. Weird, but that's not my doing.=20 > I disagree with Jorge's insistence on straight apostrophes instead of cur= ly apostrophes. Straight apostrophes are an artifact of the conflation of a= postrophes/foot signs in typewriters, and does not need to used when altern= atives are available. Indeed; this is a matter of taste. The source PDF has curly apostrophes, an= d it's in standard Lojban orthography. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.