From 3qRGySw8JBrgkgafYcj.ctcpqmlekYgj.amkjmhZYlemmejcepmsnq.amk@groups.bounces.google.com Tue Mar 30 07:59:24 2010 Received: from mail-yx0-f141.google.com ([209.85.210.141]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <3qRGySw8JBrgkgafYcj.ctcpqmlekYgj.amkjmhZYlemmejcepmsnq.amk@groups.bounces.google.com>) id 1NwcuR-0002vJ-8y for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 07:59:24 -0700 Received: by yxe5 with SMTP id 5sf1709979yxe.2 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 07:59:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:received:received:mime-version :subject:from:in-reply-to:date:message-id:references:to:x-mailer :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=D6D3fLxJkD9rYmFLYbRpJvxF8WKc5kXHltLAOQVL7Rk=; b=hoDjLYuz8gRgoqh+g9pEZyDhD8G3DqBXCzZVJF0WmvE5EdjDUJnIMeVhhIGKGTqT1/ 1uHmCFa3239PUgv4ZiXWVhHAsxKpxeYM+RfM/qdkGfXm4yrYozSTKeK9+jC1ltfZ1XhZ 0ZydCVVsTJ3RYi6PQM1W8U6AdMvWwhAKFnUYo= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date :message-id:references:to:x-mailer:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=hUk0adgzscssQbhPtIRLCg2y3yTKrp/bV3vIAClJHq//qR3qzclRiq8WsAIFv5Wjkf miuy4wSng0YaIwbvM0MKn7zqa7LUfNGdjsNQ6Os2CHdIBFIz1f42TuQ1kyv3beq+NehK A6yuC38JyUCpdtUpPYCdC3Qi9kzxqdjQrMTs4= Received: by 10.91.127.5 with SMTP id e5mr521920agn.26.1269961129840; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 07:58:49 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.213.41.209 with SMTP id p17ls1292537ebe.1.p; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 07:58:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.213.60.129 with SMTP id p1mr627696ebh.25.1269961128552; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 07:58:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.213.60.129 with SMTP id p1mr627695ebh.25.1269961128522; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 07:58:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ey-out-1920.google.com (ey-out-1920.google.com [74.125.78.147]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 18si319664ewy.0.2010.03.30.07.58.47; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 07:58:47 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of michael.everson@gmail.com designates 74.125.78.147 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.78.147; Received: by ey-out-1920.google.com with SMTP id 26so944433eyw.40 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 07:58:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.85.83 with SMTP id t61mr1715958wee.167.1269961127338; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 07:58:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.104] (murrisk2.westnet.ie [88.81.100.235]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id g9sm18153638gvc.8.2010.03.30.07.58.46 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Tue, 30 Mar 2010 07:58:46 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1078) Subject: Re: [lojban] la .alis. From: Michael Everson In-Reply-To: <702226df1003300746s108686d3pb7fc2ad4426fb6e9@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 15:58:45 +0100 Message-Id: <55DD326A-D145-4618-B5D1-4A251BEDE108@gmail.com> References: <2320FCB7-86FE-4E30-9F24-DAD6E40024D7@evertype.com> <5715b9301003291146h66475c74off6625befee8fdf5@mail.gmail.com> <702226df1003291319s63636a59t68668f5a79e79d4b@mail.gmail.com> <241890.82160.qm@web81307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <37457605-902E-44CB-BE49-02A30FC20700@gmail.com> <702226df1003300746s108686d3pb7fc2ad4426fb6e9@mail.gmail.com> To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1078) X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of michael.everson@gmail.com designates 74.125.78.147 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=michael.everson@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: michael.everson@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/62f96e395a91e500 X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/afe2c722d430711d Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 30 Mar 2010, at 15:46, Jonathan Jones wrote: > No they aren't. Essentially, they are; to the spell-checker, they are. One is missing a mar= kup apparatus (which makes it hard to read), but plenty of languages includ= ing European languages have manuscripts that just run things on without pun= ctuation. The ambiguity gave rise to the punctuation and casing conventions= which users of those languages enjoy today. > The second has no indication of sentence separation, incidental clauses, = or a great many other things that written English uses punctuation to expre= ss. Your argument doesn't hold for the simple reason that Englishneeds punc= tuation in it's writing to make sense. Lojban doesn't. It's "punctuation" i= s words, such as {.i}, {xu}, {mo}, {.ui}, and etc. This still does not mean that a markup apparatus is unhelpful for a languag= e like Lojban. Chinese and Irish have interrogative particles, and yet they= use the question mark. Yes, Lojban is special and interesting because of i= ts particles, but that doesn't mean that a totally minimalist typography fo= r it is inherently "superior" to a more familiar typography with markup app= aratus. In my opinion. Michael --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.